so so I guess just to take a step back and start with with the beginning for you. I know this was in the 1980s. I just have a couple questions about your work early on and then I would love to speak more about where we are today and the new book you have and sort of where you see us going in the future. But something I've always been curious about because I can't imagine the sort of social pressure that you were facing when when, when looking at that data that you accumulated in China in the 1980s. And when you were beginning to publish your work and I'm just curious. Did you ever consider sort of going with the flow, ignoring the findings? I mean, I know you grew up on a dairy farm. So it must have crossed your mind. At least, once that, perhaps, it would be better for your own career. If you didn't, you know. Rock the boat. So to speak. Did that ever cross your mind? And what were some of the considerations that you were thinking about across

my mind continuously and never stopped. You're right. I was raised on a farm and so I was above an opinion at that time, especially when I want to wait to graduate school that the opposite was true. The more meat. We eat, the more high-protein, we eat, the better, we are going to be. And so, you know, some of that story eventually though. I started my research career. 1960s, actually before that the 1950s, but I've heard this a long time. And it's so, when I got the form of research program going with NIH and that was in 1969 to be specific by the time that 1980 or so rolled around, and I was on a national panel on the whole question for certain diet nutrition and cancer. At that time. I was becoming rather convinced that our work was going in the direction that, you know, diet was important clearly. Lee and so what the problem I faced primary it was this much socially. It was professionally because in my profession, you know, they don't entertain ideas like this and that was on this National panel at the time and I was pretty prominent, you know, the news and stuff like that or was in Washington or Nest. Your good policy given testimony before congressional committees and stuff like that. So they really took it to me. It really took it to me and tried to throw me out of my Society. They all kinds of things. So talking about pressure, it started and continued for all the years since as far as going with the flow is concerned. When I saw it, I guess, I thought about it in theory, but I never intended to not go tend to go where we're going because Mike, that's what our research is showing. And so by 19, late, 70s, 80 or so. We always start to change their diet. We did a gradually, I had A wife who really bought into this? We had children, and she really changed our diet a lot. And so, it took about 10 years. So, whatever social pressures were concerned. They're there. I know they're there, but there's something more important. You, I just stay with what I believed. What I saw to the show.