Hello, loves, welcome back to, we can do hard things. I get so amazed and excited, every time you come to this little party that we're having. So thank you for coming. Thank you for showing up at our, we can do hard things party super excited today because we have the magical wise.
Guys incredible Esther perel back with us and she is answering your questions today and I don't want to take up any extra time here. So let's just jump right in.
Hi, Glennon and sister. My name is Melissa, and I'm a mom of two. My hard thing is
My husband and I was relationship, does not have anything inherently wrong. We don't have any major issues and we fight very infrequently, but I find myself feeling very stagnant in a relationship. I recognize that he is an amazing provider. He gave me my two. Beautiful amazing girls.
And he is studying. He's confident. He's not going anywhere. He tells me that but there's no spark. There's no Pursuit. There's no Adventure. There's no passion and I used to try to make that for us, but it's been kind of rejected and not received her so long that now.
I'm finding that I'm not even trying anymore, and I feel so sad about that. My question is.
What do you do when you feel like you wouldn't have much of a relationship without your kids being there?
The last question kind of takes you to the different directions. So it's which one do I want to to answer? I, you know, I would want to know, what did you try before? Did you say? Let's go to a club. Let's go dance. Let's go take a walk together. Did you hold his hand? And he took the hand out. Did you sit next to him on the couch? And he basically doesn't notice if you dare or not.
Did you try to put your head and hand in his hair? And his hand, never comes on human? What did you try for? Which you say? The response was such that I stopped trying and I basically closed in and basically shut myself down. So there's two ways to change it. You either restart certain things like that. And you see if he is, if there is a response and then
You basically depending on the response, you go to the partner and that is a very scary conversation because it basically a conversation that says we have a infrastructure of a relationship and that relationship gives us both a deep sense of stability and consistency and predictability. But there is very little intimacy between us. There is very little closeness between us. I am lonely. Are you
And that is a scary conversation to have you know, it's not you don't respond and we there is no spark. It's I'm lonely. We are good productive providers together and we get things done.
But that doesn't feed my soul. That doesn't make me feel that I am important to you that I matter that you are special to me. Does that matter to you? Do you ever have that need? Do you know, or do you think that because we go to on Saturday night to dinner together that that we have that, you know, how do you see us? And can we ever talk about that? And I often find it very difficult. I'm afraid that you are going to shut down the conversation or that you're not going to.
Know what I'm talking about, which is going to make me feel even more lonely or that things are actually find for you. And that at the end of the conversation. I'm really going to feel that once there is no kids. There is nothing between us. So the I often think letter writing is very useful in situations like this because it gets people's attention rather than sitting at a table and trying to get them to lift their head from the phone. You actually write a note and you said, this is a letter that I've been writing in my head many many times.
To you. I've written versions to yourself, you know, that you've written versions that you want. Send. So the letter that is sent is not the first one you write in which you say, you know, I was looking at us today and I saw this beautiful unit of people, you know, but there is a an empty space between them and I suffer from that empty space and I don't know if you do too when we met we used to be able to talk for hours. They
A real sense of, you know, we were curious about each other. I sometimes feel like, I don't really know what's inside of you and What Makes You tick and I don't feel that you have any idea of what happens inside of me and maybe that's the marriage that, you know, maybe that's what you grew up with. Maybe that's how we age, you saw your parents. I saw my parents that way too, but I promised myself that I would have better. I would have more. And here I am with you and I don't have that and I don't know. I want you to
I feel my longing. I hope you don't just hear this, as my criticism. I miss you. I miss us. I long, I'm lonely. And I can't imagine that if I feel this way, you can just think we having the best of times. Shall we meet somewhere?
I love it. Focus on the longing, and not the criticism. That's so beautiful. That changed everything for me. When I read that, that you said a stair behind every criticism is a longing behind every anger as a hurt. Because that, like if you could interpret all of my criticisms.
As a longing for more closeness to you as opposed to low-grade Warfare on you. Imagine what we would have, you know, imagine that you can say that. I know, I can sometimes sound critical. I know that I'd lose all Elegance in the way that I say things and I really want to own that because what I really would love for you to feel is how much I miss you.
It's not that, I don't like what you do is that, I used to love what we had and I learned, you know, now it depends sometimes you have a person who really can hear it and then response from that place and sometimes you have a person who no matter which way you say it is still going to react defensively, you know, you have to be prepared for that. And basically just like you never happy. What else does it take for you? I do this. And I do this and I do this and I
Matter how much you've acknowledged everything they do they, you know, because then they are in their own scripts. This is not any more marriage material. This is family of origin material, and they're speaking of family of origin material when she has that. I think, you know, we would say, why can't they just interpret are cleaned out? That's what I said, but but it's our responsibility to express it as long as it's not always their responsibility to listen to our criticism.
Slated into their brain as longing and we say why the hell aren't you interpreting? We have to actually express it as longing. I know the heartache and that's so vulnerable sister. You don't like to be vulnerable.
Mhm. We're going to go to Ashley right now.
My name is Ashley. I have had a very estranged relationship with my mother. Since I can remember, we've never gotten along. It's been super rough as an adult. I am a mother to five kids and I'm finding it very hard to connect with them because of the not the connection that I had with my mom and I'm also finding a very hard to cope.
And deal with it. It's been a skeleton in my closet for years, and I'm now trying to face it and I'm just so overwhelmed. Do you guys have any tips for me? Or any thing that can help me with this? Thank you so much, and I've just started watching listening to your podcast, and it has been amazing. It brought some tears today, though, but good Pierce. Thank you so much and have a great day.
So Ashley, I'm going to just have a few minutes to talk to you. But this is a situation where I would say, it could be really helpful to try some therapy with somebody who helps you parse out what happened in your relationship with your mother, you know much of our early conflicts with our parents are often either because we got too much of something or too little of something, we either got intrusion or abandonment, you know, we got the neck.
Act or we got the Suffocation. So I don't really know what led you to be. So cut off from your mom that it almost LED you to cut off from the mom that is inside of you. And in order not to be like her, you can't develop your own and and what you notice in a very beautiful way is how this is playing itself out with your children and you've made, you've connected the dots. You know, that something is not allowing you maybe to hug them to kiss them to consume.
Soul them or to put limits to them or whatever the challenges that you are feeling because of Edom. Because there is something in you that, as the child, that is being replayed. That makes it hard for you to, then become your own mother differentiated from the one that you had. And this is not a quick fix, you have five kids, they go get the help. It's a, it's a lot of people that would be affected by this and you.
And there is not irreversible. If you do want to start something on your own. I actually had the same thought, you know, because you I don't know that you're talking to your mother. So talk to your mother, by writing to your mother. But to yourself handwritten, please not computer. He won't the emotion that comes through the hand and just right. You know, Mom, it's been so long since we had an exchange, and I realized that in fact, on the one hand. I don't talk to you. And on the other hand, I seem to be in conversation.
Jeans with you all day long, but it is a subverted conversation and I need to figure that out. So I'm going to just try to tell you what kind of conversations I have with you every day, even though we rarely see each other or rarely talk to each other and put it down. So, you know, if you want you can even put something an object that represents her right in front of you. So that when you lift your head you can look at her a picture of her and you can really enact this.
The conversation and what was missing in your experience with her and was she the only one, did you have siblings where it was? There are another parents, you know, what was the context of how this kind of dissociative estrangement took place? What happened to you in your body? What happened to you in your heart, in your hands, Etc. Then you decide if you ever want to go and meet with her and say, you know, I wrote you something and then read it out loud to her that we
Will be much better than trying to have a conversation. You may have a mother who doesn't know what you're talking about. And he's completely cut off, too. And then we can go and deal with her mother. See how many generations of this, this takes place. But in the meantime, do you self and your five little ones, the favor and get help on this. You don't have to do this all alone. And I would just say cuz I remember feeling early on when I stepped into the family with these three children that I was
Exhibiting some behaviors that my mom showed me that hurt me, that traumatized, me and is talking about it with you Glennon and almost not like an accountability coach, but somebody that I could just say, I don't want to be that Mom. I want to be a different mom, but some of this stuff is instinctually integrated into our DNA that we can work through with not only therapy but bringing your partner along. Yes, Journey with you beautiful. I think can be super helpful. I know for me.
Me, it has allowed me Mike the closeness that I that I crave to have not only for
my mom. So it's been a
real parenting in some ways. Like my little childhood self is has healed some of those childhood traumas through the re parenting of my own children. Yep. Did you allow yourself? Because I think the piece in between hear that and that's a very important piece for all your listeners to is the actual acceptance that we are bound to do.
And to repeat the very things that we promised ourselves, we would never do, let's start with that. Yeah. That was a tough. That's a tough pill to swallow. That was because it's that which allows you to then find an account and an accountability partner is that you don't because so often we hide it, we feel so ashamed about it. It's like oof, how could that be? You know, I pray that I hear the think about of my mouth or I hear that, we have responded his order.
Coldest that suddenly takes over me or the stern, the, so, whatever the piece is, you know, and I think the first thing is really to know it, you know in the name of what Glenn said, the beginning you're not alone with this, we this is common. We do repeat what was done to us and we learned that even when we know oh, I wish I cringe and so I want to hide I don't want to say it and then we don't want to talk about it to others. But if you accept it, you'll have an easier time and
Talk about it. I mean we I haven't been able to change completely. I like the idea of just even acknowledging it because we acknowledge it as a whole family. I decided I did not want to bring my hyper-awareness of every social situation and controlling everything and being worried about everyone's energy in the room into my family. So that's what I do every damn day Esther, but and I haven't been able to change it completely. But what we do do as a family is I say I'm doing
That thing where I'm making everybody nervous and ruining everyone's social experience because I'm worried that the social experience will be ruined. So I'm ruining it and the kids know, they know, that's the energy I got from my work, family of origin. They know when I'm doing it, they can see it. So it's not that I've been able to change it but just talking about it as a family. I think makes them a little bit Freer from it. Yeah, because we're not and p-ting the pattern. We're pointing it out and saying, oh mom having that thing bless her.
Yep, and when they get older, they can say to you too. You're doing that thing, which is what happens in my family's, it started to say to me, you know, you're doing this thing and I would just say oh God, I think you it at first I'd be defensive. No, it's not the same thing about doing that thing I need but then over time I just basically told you know what they're doing you a favor, you know, so then I take it and just say you, right?
I'm stopping and so that I don't know how old the children are of this of Ashley, but it's astounding how much we live in an echo chamber, and how much we bring this thing, you know.
It's very disturbing. It feels like we could, we will never leave our, you know, whichever the parent is that we're trying to transcend like you just like you hold me prisoner you live inside of me, but in fact, we slowly put them out there and that's why the picture is very helpful. You put the person outside of you, you external iser. You're talking to the part of you that identifies with your mom. That has learned that piece, but you also are trying to take that part and look at it separately.
As you have other parts inside of you and it is those other parts inside of you that will help you make sure that this one doesn't become the dominant one. That's the piece is that you do have that but you have other things that you do so differently from you. Mom this. I said to Ashley to I you focused in on the part of you that is repeating but you didn't focus on the parts of you. With those five children, those unique moments may even if they're small, where you noticed that you had done something that you liked, and that went well.
You need that list too because otherwise you can't address the other list.
Like Taylor Swift my favorite articles of clothing are all of my Cardigans no matter what the weather. I wrap one around me and immediately feel like I'm wearing a socially acceptable blanket.
So cozy third love has an item like this. It's there, 24/7, classic t-shirt bra. Loved and worn by millions of people. It's their number one bra for a reason. As you know, I've been mad at bras my whole life. So when I got my third love bra, I was skeptical. But I have to say, it really is comfortable. And the fact that third love offers exclusive half cups is a game changer. Also the fitting room quiz, they offer is fun and made it easy to pick out the size and style. That suited me best.
And if for some reason you don't love your fitted first, exchanges and returns are free for 60 days as part of their Perfect Fit promise, you know, especially babe how important returns and exchanges are to me. Third love gives back to their the largest donor of undergarments in the u.s. Feeling is believing. Give yourself the 24/7 comfort and support you deserve. Upgrade your bra today and get 20% off your first order at third love.
Calm hard things. That's 20% off at third love.com /, hard things.
Okay. Hi Glenn, Amanda. And Abby. My name is Lauren. I'm 23 years old and I have a hard thing.
One of my best friend's is going through, what I would consider to be toxic and really hard relationship and I find it really hard to.
Be a supportive friend through this kind of thing.
and that was really like to figure out how to be a better friend because I feel like I'm constantly battling between being supportive and
Burning someone's house down. So I I would like to know, what advice do you have on loving someone through?
A bad relationship.
Have you ever been in such a situation?
Yeah, I mean, I think this, this defines Glennon and eyes. The difference of Personality that we are Glennon, wants to burn everybody's house down and I'm usually pretty supportive of of not that you're not supportive. But I think that that, yeah, all of us have. So, so how I would frame it, you know, so how a be famed? It is, I've burned she supports how I would say it is I tend to Astaire err on the side of saying the thing.
Saying what I think is the truth.
And Abby would are more on the side of supporting the person through their truth. No matter what she thinks. And I see.
Beauty on both with both approaches, although recently,
We have been in a situation where I actually went beyond myself and into because we choose partners that we wish to teach us things. And I said some really hard things to a wonderful friend recently about her relationship about her relationship. And that was so out of my character because I'd like to let people live their own lives and figure stuff out themselves.
But I think that
at the risk of
our relationship. I said a hard thing because I thought it was.
The right thing that she needed to hear in support of her and it went okay didn't go great. But yeah, I mean, I think I think it's interesting that that I mean it was really awkward for me to do it. I was sweating actions sweating right now thinking about it. So what are the guidelines of that Astaire? Like, how do we know what to say? And when to say, well, how do we know how to support and also tell the truth?
So the reason I picked this question is also because Lauren is 23. And I had just been asked a very similar question by a young boy, who was so young man who was in college and was asking it about his friend. And and I just thought these are such interesting questions and they differ at different at different developmental stages.
I think that I would respond differently if it's me today vis-a-vis some friends versus me when I'm, you know, when I'm not yet. So sure about things. But I sense things right. And I don't want to upset you and I don't want to lose you but I also want you to not get hurt. It's very easy. When you see your friend in a situation to want to blame the third person, they found somebody and that person is not nice to them. Is
Offensive to them is not respecting. Them is living off. Their money is exploiting them as light to them is cheating on them. I mean, there's a long list and and so the first thing we want to do is pull our friend away from that person and the more sometimes, we try to pull them away from that person. And the more they actually are going to get glue to that person or they going to stop telling us the truth because they are embarrassed about what's happening.
They don't want you to know that they get scratched on occasion or not just on occasion. They're afraid, they're ashamed. They're embarrassed Etc. So this is really where the thing is at this stage. She's your friend and you first and foremost are going to be with her no matter what she's going through. You're not going to be the judge of it. And on occasion, you're going to just say, you know, you seem to really be having a hard time or you're going to
Look for the places where she has doubts, where she wishes it was different. Because if you become the police of the problems that she will done. She doesn't have to see the problems and she can just focus on but afterwards, he apologizes. But he was really nice this morning, but he was so nice. When we went to visit my mother, of course after the visit if you do it shreds are apart, so don't polarize make sure to sir.
First, get a sense. Does your friend here? And there think something here is
off.
Then when you get that then you say tell me more, don't say yes, I do that. You brought it up. Let me tell you what I really think about how off it is. If you can this is very hard to do. That's why. You know, and that's why the the experience of life here matters. Then you say tell me tell me more about off get the full sense and then start to
Will where the dissonance lies and then go ahead and say, you know, this is a very good intuition on your part. What you think is off. I agree, it's off and I feel that maybe you don't know how to get out of that. I'm here for you. And if you don't have a place to stay, if you don't have money, if you think about, if you're afraid of retaliation, if you think there's a vindictive.
Person there, if whatever the thing of those toxic, if you are just going to get broke because you're feeding his habit, or whatever the thing, or he's bigger ideas, that never amount to much of anything. Whatever the ways in which you think there's a fundamental imbalance in this relationship. Then you say come spend a few days with me.
Just get out of this for a tiny bit. Don't force anybody to go, but help them come and then bring a few other girlfriends together or friends, no matter who they he people, warm. Loving people come together because when you're in a toxic relationship, parts of you are falling off and you become a narrow version of yourself,
Other people need to bring back a mirror of the multi-faceted, you of the you who wants could say, no of the, you who used to have such a strong opinions, about things of the, you who could put limits of the of the, you the, the Fuller bigger you. That's what you want to bring back to this person because that's where that she will find the strength and the resilience to then make a decision towards this relationship. That's the strategy eautiful.
So it's like not this is what I think it's this is who you are in a million different creative ways that and then this relationship you are not the full version of you. You I know you. And this is just chopping a roading major chunks of you because you are being whatever the thing is that, you know, she didn't explain the doctor. The toxic is such a complex world at this moment. What is it that you're sensing, you know?
It is the imbalance. What is the the inequity and the indignity that you perceive is happening to your girlfriend and then bring her back into a circle of people who see the whole of her? And then she gets to be her own hero. She gets to be the one that says, no, that's not worthy of me, instead of being accepting or being pushed upon the other here.
Those who are saying we're going to save you from this between say, I'm saving me from this because in any case she will only go when she's ready, right? It's just a matter of time or if he'd of the of the other person leaves, but it is only. So, the point, you're absolutely right. She owns the story and you bring back pieces to the story that have just kind of disappeared because, you know, sometimes really people barely can remember their name.
Yeah.
Okay, one last question for you
sister. I went in and sister. I have a question on love. I don't know that you get many mails to call into this podcast, but I
Recently ended things with my girlfriend, or she ended things with me and it's caused a lot of self-reflection self-discovery, and self-love. And we have both expressed that we will always love each other, no matter what. And I guess my question is when and how do you know?
That it's time to move on from that love, even knowing that that love will still always be there.
Thank you so much for your podcast and thank you for all that you do.
You may decide that this relationship was a beautiful love story, but it will not remain a life story. You don't have to squash the love in order to move on. You may just say this love is precious. I will hold it dearly but it is not going to be my life.
That's the first thing. And then I actually think that in situations like yours, that they are beautiful rituals of conscious uncoupling. While of the term. I think it really is. So rich, you know, to say goodbye in a nice way, you will be in tears. I've sat with people who do this in my office. I mean, tears with them, you know, and it starts with this is what I
I wish for you. I'm here to say goodbye. Sometimes. I make people write it and then they bring it to the session and they read it out loud. When I think of us, these are some of the main images memories associations that I will have. And people just basically recount their story, you know, I think of this bar, I think of this restaurant. I think of this beach. I think of this club, this band, you name it. It's all the things that we shared that I take with me and that I hope you will take with you.
And so what I wish for you, what? I hope that you take with you from me is and maybe sometimes people can also say the advice that I would like to give you as your
friend.
You know, I would hope that you will do the things that you really have always said that you wanted to do that. You will find a confidence that you won't just do what you think is what people expect it, whatever the thing is, but people have beautiful advice that they can give to each other in situations like that.
What I take from you. What I will carry with me from the years that we were together from the time from the relationship that we had where I wish I had been different. The things that I take responsibility for that. I did or did not do and you will share the sadness of the Lost together and you take it with you. And then after that, you don't stay in touch for a little while for a while, so that you don't feed on this all the time. You hold it, when you think it, you can go and read.
Did you can read it again? You can weep, you can cry. You will mourn. You will grieve. And you slowly over time. Makes new space for love to enter again. And at that point, you can, if you want to stay in touch and develop a friendship together, you can do. So, I believe that many beautiful relationships can transform into friendships, but not in the moment of Separation because people are not always exactly at the same place either, you know, you say she
Broke up, you broke up. It's not sure. Maybe you made it so that she would break up so that you wouldn't have to do it or vice versa mean, you know, but the main thing is, it's very important to say, goodbye to have rituals. For the end relationships are filled with rituals for the beginning and they often end up just in some friggin cold loss room courtroom, you know or with a text or with a ghosting of a person. And when the way you end and the way you take with you, what that was, we'll do everything.
Fitting for what will follow. Can I say one thing about that? I stare? Because when you were saying that about the rituals, I was married and basically had a 10-minute conversation, that was supposed to encapsulate, the entirety of our marriage, and literally haven't spoken or heard or seen him in those years inside. So it was that it. And what I want to say is that I think that it I think what you said,
That that can be done by yourself to. Like, I really think those ridges the rioting talking. It's that, because so many of us have grieved so heavily, not hot, not being able to do that, not being able to hear from our person, but I think saying what it was to us is important because the world will try to tell you that was a sham or that was that wasn't really love because how could it have ended that way if it was really love. And so I love the idea of doing that for years.
Self even by yourself if you need to well and I'm not mature enough to be able to do it myself with. I know that about myself that I don't want to have contact with people from my past in my present. Like, that's something I have to know about myself. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's like, what works for me. Like, that's how I get closure is. Okay, that's done and dusted, and I'm moving in a different direction. Sorry. I didn't, I don't, I really don't think there's a right and, you know,
No, in the past, we had none of these issues. We couldn't decide you had one relationship. It was the first person you had sex with. He was the person you married and it was for live and there was no exit and that was that. So having the opportunity to have more than one love relationship in your life, you know, and to then say goodbye to end it to end it well or let well or to just say, you know, I don't need you as a friend, you were my partner, you were a lover, but the I have friends, I want other people. As friends, you know, the person I would choose a different, totally fine.
You know, but in this instance because I think that, you know, no matter my when and how do you know when it's time to move on from that love, even knowing that the love will stay. It's like how do you end? How do you leave and sometimes you need to Stage the actual goodbye and sometimes the goodbye is done with the person present and sometimes the goodbye is done with the person that you carry inside of you, but you need the ritual, rituals. Help us transition.
Action, they are, they framed the intention. They elevate the meaning. They say, this is over. We spend months coming together. We spent years coming together. We Blended our stuff that I did, and now we disentangle and we parked speaking.
Of parting. Hmm, tragically it is time to wind down as stair. I just have such deep admiration and respect and love for you as a person, but for the work that you do, these number of my friends, whose relationships and lives, you have changed and touched. I just, I don't know if you go to bed thinking about the effect that your work has had on the world, but it's profound. And I'm
Only grateful, thank you. And I and I love even this theme of these two episodes, which maybe I'm just hearing as a bridging introvert, but there's so much of what we've talked about that is work that has to be done on our own that is relational. But like even the bringing the erotic back even though Awakening that part of ourselves that's personal though, the relationship you're talking about with the mother and she has to do that it personally first. The the saying goodbye sometimes has to be
And alone, so much of this has to do with Reckoning with ourselves y'all. We're going to put everything that s tears ever done in the show notes so that you can order her books. And if you're not a big reader, get the game, my gosh. It's just send to the podcast. Yeah, at the game is like, do you have a Piezo? It's that you love the other episodes that they kind of have stayed with you from welfare. I mean, I've listened to every single episode, I where should we begin? So where shall we go? I used to lie.
Lay in my I have this little infrared sauna. I mean, Abby knows like I there's several episodes of listen to two or three times, which I know I wouldn't be able to, you know, tell you especially you, you would walk in from your sauna, you'd walk in for your sauna and you'd say, so, what do you think about dr. Da and I'm like, you were listening to. Where should we begin again? Yes, what episode? Let me listen to it. Yeah, then we can talk a little bit later. Yeah, so so helpful for us because we would go, you know, we would listen.
Your episodes and then we would talk about them as a couple or we'd be at dinner and there was an entire six months. We're always said to each other was I would say at dinner. So what a stair said today and she would she would go what Dex said today. It was like she was listening to Dax. I was listening to a stare and I don't know. I I couldn't tell you a favor because I've listened to every single one. I just. So it's interesting because we took where should we begin the podcast? And we turned it into. Where should we begin the car?
Third game because that way you don't have to necessarily Listen to Everything. I give you the prompts right away. Exactly. You can go directly to, I mean, and listen, I stare at the game, like gonna saying her mom was here and we had this gorgeous intense and vulnerable conversation. I shared some personal stuff with my kids. Wow, like, family trauma stuff with my own children. They're not gonna let him play.
I know, but like I knew it was enough like they're old enough to figure out handle it cause it's just curse for my kids to know me and no one embarrassment or no of vulnerability. Like they are witnessing us do that. So they themselves get permission to be that and and to feel that they can express themselves and their vulnerabilities or their embarrassment. So I just think that this game is so awesome. It was and it's are we stopped at first? We did, we took out the sex.
Questions, but now we are strategically leaving in some sex questions, not like scary ones, but once we're we're like no we're going to talk about this stuff with our kids like and they act all uncomfortable, but then they do talk about it. So it's great. It's just like it's this little set of keys that you can sit on your coffee table and you just lit. Unlock each other with the cards. It's just a beautiful thing. Can we play our pod squatter of the week so that we can let poorest are go. We've
Along, and she has the world to save out there.
So.
I'm wrong. My name is Cindy. I love your podcast, we can do hard things. I just listening to the one that about quitting this morning as I was on my walk. And one thing that I thought of was, I am so grateful for all the hard things that have come my way and that I lived through and that I've quit and
Everything because it's got me to who I am now, and I really, really, like myself now.
So I've been through two marriages, both of them. I left.
And it really, it really has. They've been my greatest teachers.
Those relationships have been great, great teachers and I'm still learning. So I just wanted to share that. So thank you for listening. Take care and have a wonderful wonderful day.
Gotta Love Cindy. Yeah, may we all at one day, be able to say I really like myself right now y'all when we win life gets hard this week.
Don't forget we can do hard things and we'll see you back here soon. Thank you so
much.
We can do hard. Things is produced in partnership with cadence 13 Studios. Be sure to rate review and follow the show. On Apple podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts, especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it, if you didn't, don't worry about it.
