If you're going to achieve outside success, you have to get so good. You're impossible to ignore this requires. An obsession with skill acquisition, no one starts out great, you become great. As today's guest, says the difference between you being broke and being a billionaire is just a set of ideas, understanding which ideas to invest in, which to discard and how to achieve Financial Freedom through your own actions to that end. I bring you Cody Sanchez, the woman with an instruction manual for success.
What do people need to know about how the world really works? And how you went from being an underpaid journalist to buying a portfolio of small? What you call boring businesses that now kick off just under 100 million dollars in annual revenue to
you business in general, especially small business gets way over. Complicated, so we hear these stories of Silicon Valley billionaires who have exited these giant Tech
Knees and built this next social app or Tesla and in reality, your richest neighbor, maybe not in this neighborhood. But in most neighborhoods is probably somebody who owns a plumbing company. Somebody who owns a local landscaping company, the community all around. You the the services you use everyday can make you a lot of cash. And what makes real change is that, you know, money is the architect for change in our world. You want to get somebody elected money, you want to change your local community money, you want to have different zoning so you can
Change the businesses in your local area money and so I don't acquire money because I want Lamborghinis and fancy things. I do it because I think it is a way to freedom because it is a tool for power. I mean, when when I first had money was when I made like 30,000 dollars, when I left College I mean I made no money on a college and I thought I was super rich and I might never have to work again and then I heard about taxes and figure that out but quickly.
I realized that you know I worked at a big company called Vanguard at the time and Vanguard was the world's largest financial manager and what was fascinating about? That company is the people inside of Vanguard touched. At the time, I think one in every four dollars in the US economy was touched in one way or the other because of the mutual funds and pensions that they that they invest and and I realized wow these human speak a language that I don't understand like Roi ibadah you know.
Basis points, there's this whole other language and finance has that for a reason they have it because you and I as normal people do not speak that language. And so they say, give me your money and Tom and trust it to me because you poor thing aren't intelligent enough to understand how to Shepherd your own future. And so, I had people calling me in 2008 when I worked at Vanguard crying asking me, how Vanguard could have stolen their money because of the crisis, and not realizing that the stock market has fluctuations in it. And at that point, I realized, oh, wow.
I'm never going to let this happen to me and mine and that was hard because my family thought to chase money was evil and that we were happy and we didn't have a lot of money so you don't need money. And then I heard this thing called the napkin Theory. I can't remember who came up with it, but basically, at the time I was struggling with am I okay to chase after money? Like is this bad? I'm a bad person for this and I heard the story about
Out a napkin and imagine yourself in the middle so you are standing the middle. Cody. And around me, is my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, let's say on each of the four corners and when you Cody in the middle, pick up your napkin like this, in order of pursuing, Financial Freedom, you lift up, everybody else around you, right? Because you can't be what you can't see. And also, because money trickles, you know, people talk about trickle-down economics. We could think about that one way or the other, but money, actually, when you
Have more of it around your family, you can hire your family members, you can build new businesses, you can create more wealth by spending it and so they explain it as one of the best Pursuits you can have is pursue. Its, you can pick everybody else and that changed a lot for me. I have a bunch of businesses that I own right? These small businesses, largely run by blue collar workers. And I remember, I called up one of the operators, one of my companies, the guy who runs the whole thing overseas, let's call it 100 employees and contractors, and I was like, I want to do events.
For our like line workers. So for Blue Collar, largely Hispanic, same thing. And I want to do self-improvement events, like what can we do? What would they be interested in? Will pay them to go even and I remember he said to me, they won't go. They're not interested in personal development. You can't find those people and I thought that was so fascinating. So I called up a couple other operators. Some of the businesses that I owned this was back in the day and like two or three of them kind of like prance around it a little bit, you know, we're
B PC and then said the same thing as like, that's fascinating. So, are they, right? Or like, is there some miscommunication? And what I basically realized is that the language that we use, even the people on YouTube listening to this right now by and large, most of the people listening are already understand the words personal development. They think it's a good thing, not a bad thing. And most people that are blue collar workers, at least in my experience, I've worked with they think about personal development, a bit like therapy. Like I told my dad, I was going to go to therapy with my husband.
Proactively like, before we got married. He was like, what's wrong? Are you guys, okay. And I was like, no, no, it's because we want to work on this thing called marriage would seems important and I failed at once. So, like, maybe we should get some help. And, and he was like, okay, that's bizarre. You know, and I told my mom and kind of the same thing. Now, there's smart great humans, but the words meant something different to them. And so what I realized with our group is oh man, we basically have, I think there's sort of Two Worlds in the u.s. right now and maybe even three, but one world are, you know, it's
Of the elites and the elites might even mean white collar workers in corporate jobs that use words like quiet, quitting, those words don't fucking exist in Blue, Collar, Blue, Collar land. And so, what I tried to do early on is I realized I had some of those words like therapy bad personal development. Why, what's wrong with you? You know, and I had to re navigate and negotiate my language, that was the only way I could change my relationship with money. So it started with being, okay, with things like personal development.
Which is totally normal. Now, other thing I'll say is I get really annoyed today when people especially like on Twitter, let's say they start saying things like, oh yeah, you should just get up at 5 a.m. get into an ice bath, then sauna then whatever. Like you know, you nerds. It's like hey I know that. That seems crazy for a lot of people but you guys are so inculcated into this world of being Elites that you don't even realize you're being extra Lie by trying to tell people that
Never experienced what it feels like to get up early and meditate, but that's unnecessary because it's actually really powerful. So, instead of trying to like break out of the, you know, world we live in, where people are obsessed with personal development. Realize most people are not in that world and help them don't try to belittle it. And that is an interesting cycle, I think we're in right now. Today, it's like selfish education is bad and I think that's so wrong.
I can't remember where I heard this. But somebody said it might have been you.
Where there's mystery, there's money like our people intentionally creating a false version of the world to keep other people
down.
I think in this case, it's more people don't realize that they live in bubbles. People on the internet, largely talk to other people on the internet that are just like them. And so a lot of the people who are mouthpieces like you and I let's say and you've been at it a long time. They never had your experience of of hiring ex-convicts speaking to them and driving them around Beverly Hills. Never. And probably they have a lot of this generation is like solo entrepreneurs who like that idea of being a solopreneur.
I want to talk about on the internet. Hey, I built this business, a ten million dollars in 90 days and I have no employees and I think that's a fucking tragedy. I think one of the most incredible things you can do is hire people. They're going to drive you crazy but they're also going to mean you have a legacy on this planet that's above and beyond just what comes out of your body as a small child or human. And so, I just think they don't realize how bubbled they are. And that their idea of Happiness, AKA a solo entrepreneur with 10 million dollars
I think it's going to be really empty in the years to come because, you know, this too, but there's nothing better than watching, one of your employees change completely underneath. You could call it your leadership or just within your culture and building this thing where people are creating bigger than you, so incredible feeling. So that's my
belief. Yeah, I'm obsessed with that moment. Where somebody realizes I'm actually capable of more than I thought that I was. So for me, it really, it really did feel like, as I
Climbed my way up. What I was doing was pulling the curtain back and seeing how the world actually works, and that sense has not stopped for me like the the farther I go, the more I learn, the more, I succeed, the more I'm like, whoa, whoa, like the world Works in a certain way and getting into Finance was actually the big thing for me. That was the first time where I felt like maybe there really is a conspiracy. Like, when you start to understand what inflation really is. It's like, bro, who, what is happening. So how do
Because you're a big believer in and I think this something that will really share. So I step back and I look at the world and I feel like it's losing its mind and I'm like, the fuck is happening. And never, did I think that I would deal with culture War stuff, or anything, even remotely politic e? And then I realized that the world is tearing itself apart because the bad ideas, and that really is my jam. So how we start getting people, to pay attention to good ideas? One thing you said that really resonated with me is getting more
or people to have skin in the game. Because if you own part of the house, you don't want to tear it down. What do you mean by that? And what are you actually trying to help people discover in that moment.
Yeah, there's a famous law called tragedy of the commons, right? And it's an economic theory. That is really crucial. If you want to understand why people burn instead of build and I heard about it from a famous economist, by the name of Thomas Soul.
Oh my God. Yeah, if I was going to be a fan,
Thomas all me to his book, economic facts, and fallacies I think is crucial reading for anybody that wants to understand numbers, not regurgitate them and to do it in a way that is a competition of ideas. As opposed to let me just shout, my idea, the loudest and and he talks about, for instance, when I lived in DC, I saw it firsthand. We had, we were in a new development, we are in Columbia Heights and, you know, some of the streets, were the hood, some of
The streets were brand new developments across from us was a big project that went up subsidized housing. Really well done, pretty and sadly within about the year that we were living there. It went from like a nice establishment to buy the end most of the house is boarded up, one year wolf. And and I remember sitting there watching it and at the same time, I was rereading economic, facts, and fallacies and Thomas Soul talked about this about how instead of subsidizing housing AKA making it cheaper for people, but having no skin in the game, nobody is
Table for anything in that place. And some of them live for free. What they've done is they've taken away their personal sovereignty, you know, have you guys ever been on a street? Let's say, and you see those scooters around right, that everybody, you can rent for a few dollars, whatever bird scooters and they're like beat to hell, you know, they're thrown on the sidewalk in Paris, they throw them in the sun all the time and that is the tragedy of the commons and action. If that was your scooter, you would take care of it but because you don't own that scooter and you have no incentive one way or the other to take care of it.
It, you beat it up and you being Collective, you all of us. And so I think one of the biggest problems in our society today we did this huge research analysis and it shook me and it was we looked at sub-sectors in the US economy so not just construction. But let's say hardware stores and roofing companies. And what we found is a cross, I can't remember how many sub sectors, but let's say 30 or 40 that 25 to 30 percent of all sub-sectors.
Are owned by the top 10 companies in each sector and that number is growing rapidly. So we don't own our local businesses anymore. We don't own our homes as much anymore. One in for single family, homes in 2022 was bought by an Institutional buyer. And so we are sort of we're doing the narrative that supposed to not be true, which is that, you know, you will owe nothing and be happy about it and we're doing it. We're letting it happen, right in front of our eyes. And I think that's a horrible.
A thing because you have all been to, I mean, you certainly seen it here in LA, but you go to a Starbucks, right? And outside, it's like, on a dirty beat up. The reader doesn't know your name. The bar Reese dispels. It wrong, they get your coffee. The brains are kind of burnt, and it's lost what it was. The mermaid is no more and then you go to a local coffee shop and what do you feel like it's the same person every day? I just was at one in San Diego. The other day. Gosh, I wish I remember his name, so I could shout it out, but great, little coffee shop in bird.
Walk the owner is right there, he's making the coffee for me. We get to know each other. He's having a community party on Sunday that is never going to happen at a Starbucks. And that's why owning those small businesses is so important, I think and that skin in the game is all the difference and then I'll shut up. But last thing is just I don't think everybody should own a business. It's hard, you know that better than anybody. You've been playing this game in a big way, but I do think having some incentive where I do ex more, I can make why more. And I can leave my stamp on the world. It's really important.
Oh, that's my mission.
I love that. I think it's really important as you were talking. So you're going to own nothing and be happy. So, when I got into this, I really thought anybody. If you believed in any conspiracy, you were out of your mind, you were like a lot. She's I like, do I even have time to have this conversation? And then I really started thinking about the way that people think. So, here's my thesis dear, smart, people stopped trusting yourself because you think you're real, fucking clever. And I'm just going to tell you right now.
You're wrong more than you're right. I'm glad you there. I'm glad the world has smart people. And I'm glad that people really push the envelope and do things and take chances and believe in themselves. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is the scientific method like you, you have to approach everything with humility and when I hear things like You're Going To Own nothing and be happy, it's like, bro, stop trying to do top down, top down always ends in tyranny, not once not most of the time, it always ends in tyranny. And so seeing people,
Enge buildings up or whatever one. I think it's unwise to think of it as a grand conspiracy. I think it is better to think of it as well. Intentioned people, they aren't evil, they certainly don't view themselves as evil. But they they have a belief system that we have to dunk on. And we have to understand, we being anybody listening to this that you can get so good they can't stop you from controlling your own life. You can get so good that you can buy a bevy of boring businesses that generate
A hundred million dollars. That's so crazy. And getting people to understand that and I love that you used to be a journalist that you did not go to Harvard that light. I think, at one point you said, I did more keg stands than like MCAT prep, I forget what the other thing was. But I was just like, just oh God, it was so on point and yet you learn the rules of a game and now you play that game. Well and so I've been thinking a lot about. Okay, my shows
Moved a lot over the years always with the same Mission. I was this moment. I want people to understand that you can get so good at the game that nobody can stop you. That's it's the only reason I do all of this. I work this fucking hard for that, one thing, and as I get into this part of my thing, I'm trying to have a way deeper conversation. So for the person that's been following me for seven years, so I cool in the beginning, we got your mindset, right? Then we helped, you get your personal finances and your relationships, right? And now, we're like full reality.
Distortion field. And what I want people to understand is that the game of life has rules, you can Master them and you can play to win. And so the, the tagline I'm noodling on is life, is a beautiful game because I don't want people to hear wolves howling in the background. I don't want them to think of Klaus Schwab and even got. He really thinks he's good. Yeah, but he'd really thinks he's trying to help you. And if you approach him in that way, you'll be better off anyway. I want people to understand life is a beautiful game.
But you need to master it. Yeah. And so looking under the curtain seeing how all of this works like that really is what I'm all about at every level. Whether I'm doing a comic book working on the video game or doing one of these interviews. It's like lift up the curtain. See how this that see that it has rules? Once you know, how to play then? You can really get
good. Oh yeah. Well, I love that because I think you're, right. I mean, think about first of all, the beautiful games, interesting.
Cuz that's what they call football or soccer around the world and which is the most viewed sport in the world right globally, which I love. And I think also if you think about it as a game then you think about problems as levels. And you think about them as natural and you start to look forward to the solution of said problem, as opposed to expecting that life. Instead of a game is a vacation with a mai tai on a beach chair somewhere. Which I
Think is what a lot of us expect like it should be easy. I should have this, it's not fair that this happened. It's like why do we think that we want life without some villains in it and without some worthwhile adversaries, there's no David without Goliath. And so you need those those enemies and adversaries because they're how you level up, how boring of a game, would it be if we were just handed the prize as soon as we walked on stage where we going to do with the rest of our time? And so I've really tried
Program. My mind over the years and to learn from people who look at problems and they're like, oh, this is Juicy. What are we going to do about that? How do you think? Okay, let's get curious. Like, do we use the do we use the lightsaber, you know, do we use the laser gun? And if you can do that with business to, then I think this whole world of opportunity opens in front of you where you become the wizard behind the curtain and you realize, oh man, you know, actually every single any game you want to play there's rules then there's ways to break those rules.
Then there's Trends, then there's ripples then there's rhythms and so as soon as you realize that you can have fun with it. I mean we're talking beforehand about YouTube and I have so much fun with social media online because it is a giant game. It's hyper algorithmic. There are tons of rhythms to learn and watch from other people. There's a feedback loop that tells you if you are succeeding or not almost immediately. And that is just like business. So, if you like playing around with social media and learning which posts go viral because
The human attention span, then you might actually like business too, and that's why sometimes people are like, you know, well I want to be a influencer online or I want to be a singer or an artist. It's like, I don't know. Is that actually what you want, do you want that label or do you want to play a game in, which you have some skill set that maybe you could uniquely apply in order to win a little bit more than you lose? And I do want the label, I know, but I don't think they're happy once. They get
it, they're not
Because they didn't earn it. But the, the in this is where I really want to get into the way, the world actually works. So this is all psychology yours and others and the reality is people do want fame for nothing. They do want money for nothing. Now, what they don't understand going back to money is just a great facilitator. So, if you don't know what you want to do, it's going to implode. You no one will believe you until they do it themselves. But that really is true. And so the question is, how do we get people to understand that? In fact, you've said this,
Happiness is struggle. And once you understand the way that I come out, it is from an evolutionary lens. So, over millions of years of evolution nature realized that I had to put algorithms in your mind, one of those algorithms is, you won't enjoy anything if you don't work hard for it period. Because nature, had to make sure you were willing to face a saber-toothed tiger go hunt. Go gather like every day in an unrelenting parade of difficulty and misery, you had to keep going. And so,
R had to be a tremendous reward for I just worked hard. This is what? No one wants ever said, I worked my ass off to get this thing and I'm so sad. I did it right? It's like I worked my ass off to get a thing. I care about that is important. Cody Sanchez says be careful of the mountain. You choose to climb to these very wise but if you worked your ass off, to get something you care about, then you feel good. Not just about the thing, you feel good about yourself, but there's a reason that rich kids implode because when you get that thing, it's not gonna hold.
The emotional weight that you wanted it to. And so the thing I fear with kids is when I got into business, I didn't do it so I could get on the ground, the Graham didn't
exist. So, I
spent 12 most 20 years, just building businesses. Not thinking one day, people will think I'm cool for this. I was doing it just so I could launch my studio. That was it. Man. I fucking ground myself into the dirt in order to be able to do it and it
It was only I was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars before I picked up my first social post. And if I could get people to fall in love with go, get good. That will feel way better than all the likes that you could ever get all the followers and all of that. That shit is transient, but being good at something is
forever. When you get rich and or famous you start.
Get around other people that are rich and famous. What's interesting then is, they can see who's real and who's not like this and you start to Crave. Actually, the respect of people that you respect. And so, I've seen it implode real fast because, you know, I have a friend and he's young, and he's done well made a couple. Let's call it tens of millions of dollars online now but he's done it in ways.
That people just don't kind of want to associate with it and so it's also it's this empty thing. You have to pretend to a legion of humans listening to you that you're the real deal and yet at the same time, you feel you can feel it. And so you know I've talked to him about it a decent amount. I'm like man you've got the thing, you're just chasing the wrong rabbit and so you've got to find your actual real rabbit because you're never going to have the respect just from the likes and clicks and you'll get it once you're around it.
Humans were like, oh, he's a builder. Oh he's got interesting ideas. No, no, he's not a hustler because that's not really. What the people that you want respect from are interested in. It's like, no, he's a, he's a Creator. And by that, I mean, a creator of value in this world and most people don't know to strive for that. They think that we walk around comparing our bank accounts like not only. Did you see this? I'm real it's like no. We I have no idea what's in your bank and you have no I have no idea and also if I told you you told me we wouldn't, what does that mean? Nothing, you can't talk about that.
Over dinner table, you talk about what ideas are in your head and things. Are you building that are worthwhile for us to have a conversation? That doesn't feel like we're at the shallow end and at a certain point that's where you want to go, when you've had some success. And so you know, Lisa and I were talking about how do you network with cool people? It's like be cool dude and I don't mean like outfit cool, I mean try to do cool or inspiring or things that bridge your curiosity because when you do that eventually you just attract other people who are interested.
It and trying to. And that I think is the real Joy of what we get to do is like, I don't really care about mean, you've been in this game for a long time, met a lot of famous people, a lot of people on the interwebs I'm like, I could do without that, never mind, not what I thought. And then you meet some Builders and you're like this guy scrubs, his one of my CEOs scrubs, his name off of the internet, you can't find it anywhere. He's definitely, I mean, he's never told me he showed me his bank account but billions and
And you couldn't find his name anywhere and he's one of the most interesting humans to talk to because it is a one of one conversation and none of it is regurgitation. And so, I think it's important that people are on the internet like you because otherwise you have a lot of humans who only do Chase Fame and that's not that the Universe of pores a vacuum. So they're going to fill it with more Kardashians or they're going to fill it with Builders and actually no hate to them because they're
There's now two but maybe not the world that I want to see.
Exactly right. I get that. I'm a little obsessed with Kim Kardashian. I'm not gonna lie. And when she lit the internet on fire by saying, maybe you need to work harder, I was like, yes. Yes, motherfucker people need to work harder, I could not believe that. That was controversial. I, I agree with that. I stand, but I stand in solidarity with Kim Kardashian's with Kim. I don't know the rest. Well enough, but I will say that. Yes, it is what she has built.
It is very impressive. I know. How are we all supposed to feel that it started from a sex tape? I don't know. I
don't care about that. I think like, that sucks it. Somebody did that to her or that it got out? I don't know. That's like how I don't care. I'm not a Puritan. I think I'm more just like oh do I really think and I use it. So what the fuck you know do I think we need more makeup brands or more like clothing brands everywhere
interesting to me got some brand play and so that's all psychology which I'm I'm all for. I don't have any beef with
They really don't have beef with social media and leveraging that. Yeah, there is something at the edges. I've not taken the time to dive into this, so I'm really sort of spouting off right now. Yeah, it was probably good but that I haven't thought
about this is
a there. She did a friend of my Matt Higgins. Does a class at Harvard Business School every year. He invited her in. Yeah, to be a case study and I actually thought that makes a lot of sense to me me too. So in the modern era. But
There. Yeah, I get it there. There's something at the edges that
I well, and maybe not even that. I think, I think it's cool that humans are building in public, and I think any time you have people that have built multiple billion dollar businesses, not to mention, just one billion-dollar business, there is something to learn there and you're crazy to be a moral absolutist and say, I got nothing to learn because it started from a sex tape. Hi, sex tapes are out there and they're not billionaires, so there's talking something to learn there. So I would take a master class from her and her larger bank account.
But I do think I do think what I would like to see a little bit more of our like more people like you more people like, you know, Andy for Sela more. People like you know that are building something that I think is super America focused that I think has like the mission and values. I'm more of a mission and values sort of human in this world
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you Shark Tank premieres Friday on ABC and stream on Hulu. That's interesting. That is almost. Certainly the thing that bothers me I don't know that there's a I don't know I have not looked but I it does not radiate out from what they.
Great. Thank you for putting your finger on what bothers me. Yeah, that's very interesting. We are living in a time where I think it's it's I would never have been an entrepreneur and any other era. Because for me the only thing that allows me to work this hard as I have to hold people a small group of people that I actually know and love and show up every day fighting for them. So Quest, it was fighting for my mom and my sister. They were morbidly obese. I want to make food that they could choose based on taste and it happened to be good for them. And so I was willing to fight for that.
Was willing to make choices of cost, me hundreds of millions of dollars in order to just. Well this is either going to help them or it's not this decision makes me more money. This decision actually helps them. And so I was really proud of that with impact Theory. It is again a very small group of people and unfortunately I've been to one of their funerals already and that's fucking heartbreaking, but just the changes he made in his life before. Just car accidents fucking dumb. But watching him.
Him change his life was unbelievable, and it was just an incredible reminder of how this stuff really works. But when you have that mission that leaks out hopefully through the choices that you make the products that you build and that we're living in an era where that's also great
marketing. Yeah it's hard to beat Obsession. You know you can have all the tactics and tools and money and leg up, but if somebody's obsessed with the thing, they're spending everyday building, they're hard to beat because they'll just
Longer, they'll sacrifice more and you. I do think that your success level often is tied to the sacrifice that you're willing to give doesn't mean you have to work 100 hours a week, but it does mean. You need to sacrifice a lot if you want to achieve massive success. And I think anybody who says you don't probably has never played the
game, there's no way. Yeah, there is no way. Everyone has to fight against entropy. Yeah. And so I won't say that nobody ever got, you know,
Get lucky. Of course, some people have got lucky but that's just going to be such a minor, minor, minor, minor minor, minor thing. But the thing is fascinating, sitting down across from you, who is a fellow Builder? Is that you actually know how to do this. So, what I want to do now is go, okay? Look, we've talked mindset, hopefully people understand that money, isn't what you thought. It's actually more powerful but it's different. You really can do this. It really is about pulling back the curtain. It's about Understanding Psychology knowing how the world Works understanding how to insert yourself into it.
But to do that for anybody at home, that's like okay I want to do this but now let's get into the real tactics so that Obsession becomes a set of skills. It really is that simple. And how do people? I think it's really two fold one. How do they know which mountain to climb? It might be worth telling that. Oh, so wonderful story. Yeah. And then, once they know what mountain to climb, let's really get into the how doth one climb a business Mountain.
Well,
I think we all miss the class in high school that taught us to know thyself, you know, oracle at Delphi style, but I do think as reference. But yeah, that's good. Was that was that eyebrow? Very leader. Ryan holiday would be proud. I feel like that was very stoic of
me. Is already leaving a comment in the field? I can feel it.
So, I think, man, if I could have gone back and done something different, that would have gotten me out of working in corporate jobs, that I didn't really, like, for, like, 12 years,
Always accuse me. I was stacking cash as I was doing it. What would have changed that for me? Would have been if I had thought more about, who am I? And what do I want? And so, if anybody listening hasn't actually written down consistently, I mean I did it daily, you can do it weekly monthly but you know what are the things that I like doing every single day? What am I actually uniquely skilled at? What do people come to me for advice on? What do I do and focus on? Even when I've never paid a dollar and nobody's watching. It's big. You know what?
What are the things that I find? So interesting that I become obsessed with them and it's like they talk about that flow State. The whole world is going to womb and you're just you're narrowed in and maybe even your family's annoyed because you won't shut up about this one thing that you're doing all the time, right? Where can you find those things? And as you narrow in as those they don't have to become. Think a lot of people then go video games. It's like, no, no. Be more granular than that, is it? Wow, I get obsessed with the characters. And, or I really like thinking about the technology on it or I kind of understand how this video game grew this.
Try to get really granular and I wish I had done that earlier because then I could have found games that I actually wanted to play. I was too scared that I didn't have some big startup idea like yours. I didn't have any ideas. I just like I want to work hard. I want to make money. I want to do what I like to do. Now. Wonder for a second.
Yeah, so one thing I heard you say in another interview and I was like, oh my God, know thyself, as you said, you said I'm never going to have the next idea about a music app or whatever. That's just not me. And I was like, whoa.
Whoa, because people want to be cool. They want to be the person with the big Ideas. Everybody thinks they want to be the CEO but not everybody's wired for that and then even if they are they may not be a product, LED CEO, maybe they're a people led CEO or a process, see it, whatever. But not everybody has to be in that same thing, but once you own, okay, that's not me. Now, you can start narrowing, your focus to what your strategy is going to be. And that's the cool thing about you is that you really have taken.
Super unique path to generating. I repeat just under a hundred million dollars a year as bananas. So the fact you were able to do that in the unique path but it's born out of finally going. Oh I'm just going to be honest about who I really am and what I actually respond to. The question, I tell people to ask themselves along those lines, is when you're trying to figure out what it is, you want to do. First of all, who is it? You want to serve? Because you'll never fight hard enough unless you're serving somebody. Yeah, but what is
The thing that you're prepared to become the best in the world at because if you're just prepared to get good, you'll get crushed. But in look, you're probably never going to actually become the best. But when you think about that, you know, that's going to be ungodly difficult and then, at least you're approaching the problem, honestly. Yeah. Well, actually, my
husband has us to this incredible thing that I love. Which is, instead of saying, what do I want? What are my goals? It's what do I want? And what am I willing to sacrifice to get it reach? And so,
He has me do this with him every year because I'm the workaholic. He's actually balanced really. I know which isn't to say that about a Navy. SEAL. Feels like off. Like now, you know how fucked up I am? But, uh, you know, he he is not singularly driven by money and the creation of an Empire and I am interested and I'm not driven by money in my pocket because I basically deploy. All of
it is essential for anybody that's looked into your background. That is very clear.
Yeah. But, uh, but I just find it fascinating. I want to just build this huge thing.
I want the billion-dollar business control. Yeah must be and I also just think it's fun. It's my favorite thing. If I have to talk about the welder or PTA meetings, I'm going to
just now. Are you like the Oracle of Omaha where it's like literally just a scoreboard thing?
No, I think I will get to a certain point where they'll be a new game like he has we've talked about this before he has singular Focus for decades. I mean I told the story on Twitter once but I sat next to
This guy on a plane. I actually think if you have enough cash to do it first class even today, where everybody's posting on their private jets or whatever. First class today, is one of the best investments you can make. If you sit and talk with some of the other people in first class, except not makes I hate talking to people on planes
and say, facts, if you see
facts,
you say hi, that's lovely. But I want to talk about the
fight but what's fascinating is if you get to the generation above ours, so let's call it 50, 60, 70 80. I was flying back from somewhere in France, must have been Connor nice.
And I was flying to the UK and I sat next to this guy Joe for Kent who created Abercrombie and Kent. Remember that company.
I don't luxury
travel company. First company that created those safari tent experience. Very right, he grew up with nothing in South Africa, built up these Safari 10 companies by himself, then created one of the largest luxury travel companies in the world, friends with the King of England now like fancy billions billionaire. And anyway, he was flying next to me.
I thought was kind of interesting. I was like uh, like thought I'd be on a Japanese like I like to fly commercial like, all right, we get to talking and I'm like, all right, you ran Abercrombie and can't. You sold it twice once for a billion dollars and then going to sell it again and probably for another X and bought it back. I'm like, what was this secret? Yeah, he's fascinating. I was like, what is what do you think the secret is like you did this for 60 years like billions and in in valuation and he's like, well, he's like
60 years, plus the same thing. It's like time plus consistency beats. Everything else. I was like, God. That's so true and not what people want to hear, because most people here, oh, you could be a billionaire at 97 years old, like Warren Buffett. No, thanks, I'd rather have my crypto Millions today and thank they think, but I sit there and listen to that. I'm like, this is fascinating, like, what if the only thing that separates a billionaire and you is time?
Of working really hard on a particular thing plus consistency of doing that thing and getting better and iterating. Every single day, that means that we have a much more even playing field than I think. People will tell you today.
It compounds. There's no doubt we were talking before we started rolling, this is my mental illness. I really, really I have a very hard time narrowing, my focus and I am. So keenly aware that narrowing. My focus will give me better results. But the problem is I'm also human
So I have to love my life and so when I'm very envious of people, like my wife for whom the thing, she wants to spend her time doing and becoming the best that she loves from top to bottom and so she's just all about it. I there, thankfully, it's not like I have seven things that I'm trying to do, but I have to and I cannot seem to stop myself, they're tied. But there, there is a big enough Gap that I'm well aware if I would just
You like media be in front of the camera or I would just do storytelling game development, my life would be better, it would be more productive in either direction and only mental illness. Stops me from doing that. And I mean, that very sincerely, I'm not happy about that. But at least know thyself. I know that about myself, we do things in the company to protect us from. Yeah, that's
do you think, why, why do you think that that's bad? Like, Warren Buffett has multiple things and is one of the richest men in the world.
World does he? Because he as far as I know, and I may just not know, but as far as I know he's he is purely investing, he finds he, if you abstract out to what he understands how to do is recognize a deal, when he sees it, that's it. As far as I can tell. That's all Warren. Buffett knows how to do
that plus operate,
I don't know. I don't know him well enough to know if he operates from what I heard it doesn't operate.
Like did you ever hear the Charlie Munger quote? That's
He said he might not have been Charlie. Might have been his mentor. He said you know the difference between good leaders and bad leaders is when I hire a dog I don't do the bargain for it and how that's good. And I thought that has really driven. A lot of my business building is realizing. I'm like you, I'm in some ways. I like, I like hands and pots, which is not very good for focus.
I found is that there are a lot of people who are singular, Focus individuals to do incredibly well with one thing in front of them. And so those end up being my number twos and, you know, you've built massive wealth. So you're obviously very good at Focus to, but sometimes I wonder like, is there just one way? I mean, maybe there is a main thing in a side piece.
I really think there are physics. Yeah, I think that whoever you point to, oh God, I'm gonna ruin my own example here because
I have to say except for Elon Musk like it's freakish, but I so here's what I think, origin. Yes. But the vast majority of his career was just focus on Amazon. It wasn't until he started really starting to pull away and he had so many of the world's most talented people working for him. Uh-huh. And my problem isn't putting my hand in too many pots because I don't want to do people's jobs. I am not a micromanager as I tell people. If I micromanaging. You is because you're not delivering results. I don't want to pay attention to you. What I?
To do is the part, I liked the part that I'm uniquely good at. That's all I want to focus at and if I'm getting results in other areas, amazing. The problem is, when you're the CEO, you have a bigger responsibility of to paint Vision yet to keep people excited. Yeah. Anyway, I, I have a feeling that even Elon Musk there, I mean, look, there might be networking things that work for him but I have a feeling each one of his companies would be better off if he gave it 100% of his time in Focus. It's just that he has such a freak and the rate at which Heat
Can think, yeah. And also of his own admission, he's not the CEO of many, of his companies. He's usually the lead product and engineer guy. Yeah. And so his mind just seems worked very, very fast. So there's some level of what's the speed at which you think and how many tasks do you take on? So, for instance, if I could think faster which would not be a stretch, I am not a fast thinker. I'm a fast talker who thinks slowly and deeply about a lot of subjects. And so I confuse people who think I'm a fast
Fast thinker, but I'm not. So if I could think faster, then I could have more output across more things but I can't. Yeah. So alas it really is holding us back. So anyway, getting into the Tactical side here. So you need to be. You need to know yourself. You need to know what your skill set is. Need to be very careful, not to misalign your particular skill set with the way that you contribute, but the cool thing when you realized, okay, I'm not going to come up with an s next business idea. I'm going to go buy a business. How did you begin to?
To build a criteria because you have so many specific criteria is from your get rich tripod to your deal. Valuations, have to meet certain criteria, like you've really systematize the stuff. How did you in the beginning when you didn't have any of that? Yeah. How did you begin to formulate? It?
I have a very bad memory. And so we bought the yeah. So, one of the worst things about a bad memory, as you can remember, things one of the best things is you have to process eyes, everything and that Frameworks and memes.
Or you know, specific vernacular actually help you remember. And so the reason that I have the get rich tripod and you know, my deal box and you know, our rules and thesis for investing is because I have to remember otherwise I do bad deals and so I think one of the superpowers you can have have is as you're going on your journey. What I had to do, I didn't mean to do it was document these frames that I left by because one when you're in charge you going to communicate it to people. So I would go
Hey, what kind of businesses do we buy? And they say like brt right, we By Boring businesses that are recession resistant. We raise the prices we add technology is the business that you're putting in front of me a brt business. No, it's not. Okay, go find another one. And so I would use it to communicate to people and to really communicate with myself, which is half the shit on my Twitter is like yelling at Cody. And probably, I don't know if you're the same
exactly the same. Like when people like, oh man, like you're being so hard on people. I'm like, bro, I am
Going
to myself. It's a whole all to reminder at some point. I'll have to just be like lessons to Cody. And I'll just be my Twitter feed, but I like to frame work them out for that reason. And the way that you do that is just by taking inventory. I make so many mistakes all the time even, like, 15 16 years into doing deals. I just had a deal, go bad last month and I'm like, God, you'd think I'd figure this out by now. And every time that happens, I have a post-op. So, just like after you have surgery or after you have a game, you sit down and you analyze
As what went well and what went wrong we do that for every single deal, we do the go
sideways, we have a structure for that are you running them against the brrt or
we run up against our entire investing framework? So we usually have something called due diligence questions. So it's called a ddq and we build out. Our ddq list is now gigantic and it's graded. So like what's most important to what's least important and then we look at these deals and we say what did we learn? And so on this most recent deal I realized gosh I have a flaw with Partners. I pick bad partners.
If these characteristics are there, if they're friends of mine already, I let them in and I skip a bunch of stuff and the ddq. So, now I go, oh, okay. Now I have a new rule and the rule is No New Friends, you know, I don't do deals with new people until we've been together for a long time. Otherwise they go to this other person on my team and they run them through the typical due diligence because I have a weak spot there. And so everything that I'm doing it's just like you know, when you play a sport
No, or when you, when you do a video game, like, you go through, like what went wrong there. Oh, I can't step out here because when the car hits me or like, I can't do, can't go out to the left because that means the guys going to get there. He's faster than I am, and I think we don't do that enough in business. So I am non-stop action, analyze action analyze document and as long as you do that ad, then I find that I can kind of continuously make better decisions.
That's really helpful. How much time do you spend on the
Either the the creation of these documents and going through them, I guess not or and, and then, when you're doing the breakdown at the end because running a company takes so much time and energy. When I was researching you, I had overwhelming sense of guilt because I'm like a god, you do a lot of things that I should be doing and I was like, what the fuck does she find the time for all this? So yeah. How much time do you spend on that
analysis? I let a lot of things go by the wayside one of the most important.
I keep reminding myself is that no, is an actually wonderful word. No is an incredible. You word to use more often and so is the ignore button. You know, I got a lot of shit on Twitter because I posted like leave your text messages on red. I don't respond to a lot of text messages. I don't respond to a ton of emails. I don't take phone calls you can't pay me enough money. Somebody reached out with like a number that I thought was crazy to just a test in a test, my resolve I guess for an hour phone call and I was like now I just I don't do it because
As I will get distracted too quickly and I'm a golden retriever. I want to chase tennis balls, right? All over the place. And so a lot of mine is I let low-level stuff fly all the time and that's one. And then two, I think I just have gotten in this process of continuously each week because I'm a writer writing this stuff down. That's my favorite part about content. Is it makes it gives me like the right to do Recaps and post-ops because I turn it into content.
Then it's one of my favorite reasons for getting on the Internet. So every single week when we have our investment committee and I learned something new or a deal goes bad and I'm writing the newsletter for next week when I'm writing more content for our business, buying group, it's real time. What's happening to me in our businesses, and I don't think I could do content and running the businesses, if the two weren't intermingled at the same
time, really interesting? That's really interesting.
Yeah, like because you don't talk as much about the stuff that you're building right now.
From like a behind-the-scenes perspective like document as opposed to create content and I'm really push our team. I mean my guys here somewhere Spencer sup because because I was like I'm we can't be creating these stories all the time. What what are we doing in our life right now that we can just document? Because we're actually real Builders, we're not just like creators, creating bullshit stories online all day, we're building. Let's talk about that. It's way more interesting than some fake story that we make.
Based on the news. And so now we try to balance between the two, but I would love like I told, I was telling Andy for saw that the other day, I'm like, dude, I had no idea. You did this in your company, you didn't like you don't talk about any of that stuff online does. I would love to hear more about that from you. I hear it for about quest, which is how I know a lot about your background. But today, even we're talking, I'm like, yeah, we what do we do for a living? We make take dr. Like, actually, I'm doing these six other things that I had no idea
about. Yeah, Lisa is unbelievably good at that. She loves doing that.
Yeah, for me, I'm not joking when I say from the moment, I wake up. Yeah, so imagine I'm awake. I will I did this morning so I have an episode with you today. I am still in bed which I gave myself ten minutes. Get out of bed but I'm still in bed. I realize I'm awake, I reach over. I already have my headphones on which is a whole nother story and I turn off my book right now about Winston Churchill and I already had an episode with you queued up and
Ironically, it was you and Andy for Zella. Oh, yeah. And start listening to that. I get out of bed. I brush my teeth all while listening to that. So, from the moment I wake up until the moment, I either go, but go to bed, or if it's a moment, I'm trying to get some time with my wife. Till the moment I spend time with my wife, I am working on something. Yeah. And so I have, I have a real problem being pulled off a task that drives me crazy. So for a long time, the social team be
Like I'll just real quick. Let's turn it into like an Instagram post and I'm like, man, I'm this. So first of all, building a video games are hardest thing I've ever done. And so often times, I'm like my head is thumping and I'm like dealing with shit and the last thing I want to have to do is turn to the camera and be like okay. Let me tell you what we're doing. It's like I'm getting my face kicked in right now and it probably would make amazing content though. So we actually are trying to build that team up because the my team has been whoring me to show more of that side.
So, well. And even, I mean, one thing that I think I'm stealing from Jay Shetty, I was chatting with him the other week, but I liked, I was expecting from a month monk like a lot of like love and touchy-feely stuff and he actually gave me some tactical stuff that I thought was really interesting and and I really liked him. But he one thing that he liked he's like I have efficient and effective days.
And I have heard before like content days versus building days and never resonated with me because I'm like a whole day on content. Like, I don't know about that. That makes me want to die and I'm like, but this efficient versus effective I thought was interesting because he's basically like I would I would block segments of my time where I know that. Like, if I do the 20% thing that drives 80%, the days successful and he's like an on those days where I know that I am having he says on his effective day. So the latest where it's just like to do less to-do list to do list to
List is the days that he allows content documentation because those are the days where your brain is like less. You're not big picture thinking so that helped me a little bit. So now I have a half day on Thursday each week where I'm doing a lot of like I'll put all the contracts I have to review and one-off you know people issues that are just lower level but have to be handled only by me on that day and on that day will also do content and so I'll be working on stuff and they'll have ideas in between me doing more
Monotonous stuff. Anyway, works for me but you know you could try it on.
Yeah, it's interesting. So I've tried many things with my calendar and this is one thing just refocusing on the tactics. You've got to get your calendar right? Like if you don't maintain, if your calendar doesn't reflect your actual priorities you're in real trouble. So I keep a list that I call important things. Yeah. And the important things are what is the most important thing that I could be working on right now? And I will just tell any any
Entrepreneur. But certainly beginning stage entrepreneurs, you're going to have trouble prioritizing and the reason you're going to have trouble prioritizing is because you think you're dumb. But in reality, the problem is no one's going to prioritize until they've done it, a lot and then you begin to get a sense of, okay, this is the to quote, Tim Ferriss. This is the lead Domino. If I do this thing, it'll make everything that comes after it easier. So you'll start to identify those things and you're going to do those until you can't do them anymore either from fatigue or there's just nothing more to do and now you're waiting for somebody to come back to you whatever.
Then you move on to the second thing but I find everybody gets paralyzed by. I don't know what to put in first place and so now you have seven things in first place. And so I and I constantly fight with my team about this. You stop fucking being weak. Like, what's number one? Like you're allowing yourself to be emotionally paralyzed because you're like, oh, it's all important. Yes, motherfucker. But you can only execute on one thing at a time. So what's that one thing? And so I'm just ruthless about that. Yeah so the beginning of my day so I'm up. Usually at 4:00 4:30 in the
Morning. I don't let anybody on my schedule until 9 a.m. 9 30 if I can push it. Yeah. And then I don't let anybody on my schedule after 1 p.m. So there's a narrow window where I've already gotten four to five hours worth of work in the beginning. So I'm doing my most important shit. All execution, then I take meetings and make sure everybody's moving and they have whatever questions they need answered and then I'm fucking in it. I'm in product and I'm in marketing. Those are the two things I'm just like obsessively focused about and so I'm available. I'm with the team which by the way, I'm going to guess because of how many businesses you own you.
Don't operate like this during Cova. Da, I was like word. Go wherever you want. You can move away. No big deal. Now I'm like motherfucking you better get in the office. Like we are back in a big way, it is so inefficient. It's he's not have people here.
Yeah. Well we just bought an office in Austin for the same reason. I've expecially found. You know, I have an incredible team because they'll tell me they'll be really honest about it. Like one of the guys on my team who runs part of the creative thing he's like, yeah, I'm just, I just don't work as hard when I'm not in the
First time, I can't believe you just so that's why face but also thank you and and, and I think it's true because most all of us have willpower issues and all of us can benefit from a little eye over the shoulder. And the reason why I think we can really benefit is because I remember when I was at Goldman Sachs and there are watching us like crazy. I was never on social media. I was never dickin off because I wanted to get out of that office. I knew I was going to have to do long hours and I wanted to get out of there. When I was done, I never understood the Silicon Valley foosball,
Make them stay here all the time thing. I'm like, come here, give it intense, maybe do a workout break or a walk in between come back to intense and then go live your life, you know, and if you're like me, you're going to work way more than that. But like be here when you're going to be here like think about work like meditation, you should be so singularly focused that all distractions sort of Fades away and if you do that then you actually have to you have to work less because you're so much more effective. But I remember early on, in my career, you know, it's
I couldn't stay at Vanguard actually, because I was sitting at a desk and I was trying, I was like, you know, those Ducks wear underneath the surface, they're paddling like crazy. But on top, they're smooth. That was me. I was drowning, I didn't know anything about Finance. I'd come from journalism. I everybody, was smarter than me. Everybody went to Harvard and Stanford, Etc. I went to Arizona State, Harvard of the West, as you said. And and I remember one of the my teammates came up and was try to talk to me about lunch plans,
Stuff and I was like CCI I'm focused. I don't have time to talk about any of this, I'm here man. We could talk like after work but like I'm here right now and happened like a few times and I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I just couldn't be distracted because then I lost my focus entirely and I probably have a little ADHD and so it would derail me for like 30 40 minutes and I remember that happened. And then my boss at one point was like
Your team thinks that you would leave dead bodies behind you and I was like, huh, really? Why they're like, well, you don't pay attention when they come up to your desk. You don't do party planning. I was like, guy, I am here to do a job and I'm going to, I would never like run over somebody to do the job but I will be singularly focused to get it done and so that is I think what it takes off that
or are you because now is a CEO. I have to imagine. Yeah, you gotta make people feel a little more warm and fuzzy or have you found a way to be like, yo
I have good people who are more warm and fuzzy than I am. So I found in life like you are who you are kind of. And every time I try to become somebody that I'm not, first of all, comes off as inauthentic and second of all, it doesn't really work. So, if I come in and I'm too warm and fuzzy, nobody's going to buy it, I am fun. I think, like, I'm aggressive, but I'm fun. So, I'll make jokes and I do something every Monday called the, the compass. And basically, it's just a little PowerPoint, 10 minutes that I give to the
Team and in it are a few things, like our culture, code, every single week, I go through what the 13 values are. I pick like one one person who wins like something for one of our values and in that, they'll be some funky fun stuffs for each of them. And so, I will like, I will cheer lead the shit out of the company during that period, but when somebody needs a hug, they know not to come to me about it for sure. Now, I think the Counterpoint to that is I've always taken care of my people like
As long as you are, good to your teammates and to the company like I will have your back like if you need a new job and this isn't the place for you. I will help you find a new job. I won't fire you like I will hand hold you. You know if you have a health issue I'm going to take care of you but like I don't think you have to be warm and fuzzy. I also higher like a lot of we're really honest about who we are in interviews which I think is really, really? And if you, you know, I was a terrible employee at Vanguard because they're super touchy-feely, you know, kind of socialists and
And I liked Goldman, I liked capitalist kind of jerks but they were really smart. And so, I liked that, I wanted the pressure. And so now when people come interview with us and like, hey, like talk to me about like your favorite moment of pressure, talk to me about when you did the thing that felt unreasonable to get the goal and I tell them up front, our interview, start with all the things that are terrible about the company and why I'm awful to work for. And if they still like it after that, then they might be a win. But otherwise, at least they know, you know,
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All hu E, elle.com Impact to get that free T-shirt with your first order, elevate your nutrition today with Huell, we have a very similar thing, so it's our culture doc, you can't come in to interview unless you've read it and yeah. Oh yeah. And the funny thing is, I've had multiple people say, hey, we've lost a lot of candidates when they read the culture Doc and I'm like that's the point because I want them to know who we are and if you're not about that life.
Then this is not the place for you. I am trying to win a championship. Nothing short. I'm not trying to be an also-ran, I'm not trying to play and get a participation trophy. I'm flat-out. I'm trying to beat Disney. Yeah, and that that is a big task and the odds of success are very low and so I want to have fun but I also want to be surrounded by hardcore motherfuckers that are here to win. And the document says exactly that. And yeah, it is very aggressive. And so yeah, we have weed people out, but what I always,
Say to the people saying, like, hey, are we sure like this thing is really aggressive, I'm like it, found you. Yeah, I'm like, what's your favorite thing about this company? The people exactly. Like we are a very specific flavor. And if you like our flavor, I like to think we're like black licorice, which I love. Now, I know for some people, that is the most disgusting thing in the universe. And so I'm like, but we're that kind of specific for the right person, like we will be the favorite place you've ever worked. And for the wrong person, we will be trash. So, for
A of my entrepreneurs out there. Let me tell you right now. Culture is one of the most important things product Market fit. More importantly, a great make more money than you spend. More important is great. But then like culture is going to be a huge deal for retention for employees, enjoying what they do for you getting things done in a way that you're proud of like as I always say to people hey Lisa and I ran the experiment of what it looks like when you don't have the right culture and its ass. Yeah and we
Hated it as much as anybody else and not liking being at your own company, that's really lame. And so, when we found it impact Theory, where like never again, like culture is going to be a main thing that we hire against that. We hold people accountable to we have something. Do you know Ray dalio? Yeah. Oh God I love this guy. So for people that don't know, he built the largest hedge fund in the world amazing, and he has this thing in this culture that he calls dots. So everybody can give everybody else like a score on. What?
Over 30 different criteria. Yeah. And so, we have a bunch of those criteria. That are part of our culture, doc, like our people being hardcore, etc. Etc. So we can all rank each
other. I love that. You know what I find? Fascinating is the stuff when I was poor or not. Where I wanted that I ignored is the stuff that makes you millions. And then, tens of millions of dollars, like, culture like leadership. I used to think what? Like, I'm just here, I get a job done. I want to get rich, I want to do the thing. This is how it goes.
And so, you know, I think it's really interesting whenever I'm with Builders who have built a lot. They all want to talk about the same stuff. It's like, how do you get more humans to want to do the things you want them to do culture leadership? And if people want to have a real success and you want to do it in a way where you're not killing yourself all day. Those two words are like two of the most important words in the English language. What's funny is I'm sure if we did a YouTube video and the title was how to build a hundred million dollar culture, people to be like snooze. But if you're like, how to make
Million dollars worth of any machines in 30 days, fucking millions of views. But guess what? The one on the left, the the first 100 million dollar culture is so much more valuable than the vending machine video. And so, if you can push through what the world wants you to listen to, which is literally the candy, the vending machine the sweets, and you can actually want to eat the broccoli. Oh my gosh. That's where all the magic is. It's actually funny because I was sitting with this the other day I went to
M3 of the Navy, Seals 40th anniversary of being in existence, right? It's cool. So, this is the, the team that my husband was at, and we go on to the new base. It's incredible. Like we take a tour through, you know, these Halls were like our friends their gear. When they were, you know, killed in. Action is sitting there in my husband flag with his name, written on it. That was like, taken away from Isis and showed our, yeah, it was just
All right. That's a heavy. It was, it was really cool. It was cool to see the steps that land from from people that you've known before. But what stuck with me from a business perspective as we're sitting, we're looking out at the ocean. It's beautiful. And we're sitting listening to five people speak Admiral mcraven who's probably one of the most you know well-respected living Team guys. Can't is Johnny Kim anyway. Both a Navy SEAL and an astronaut and a
Doctor. She's a mean total. Underperformer. Ya doing anything has some people. Yeah. And the current head of Team 3. What was fascinating? Is you had Admiral mcraven. He gave this incredible speech, right? Like best-selling author. One of the most senior guys in the military. You had the head of the team. You had overachiever, Johnny Kim astronaut doctor Etc but then at the very end you had what's called. This is co I think, excuse me, if anybody in the military is
Probably fucking this up, but he's like the head enlisted guys, so there's officers and then there's the enlisted guys. And they work hand-in-hand, but the chief enlisted guy is a badass. Sir, I won't say his name because I don't know what to public or not. But anyway, he at the very end of this like couple hour long segment, it's emotional there, you know, mentoring, some of the people that have died. I was looking at it from a team perspective and from an inspiration perspective, and all of these speeches were like relatively formal. They were
A good but a very end. He comes up and he has 12 7 or 12 Team guys in full kits. So like machine gun or a are something all, decked out with their Gear helmets on and they go and they line up on the other side. And so, it's like very jarring, right? You see the mock cross a line and and what they are is, they each represent members of the team that were killed in action over the years and what was incredible.
You closed out the ceremony and they would yell out the name of the person who was killed. So it'd be like, you know, Brandon Looney. And then everybody would yell, right? They yell really loud and then they'd shoot off the machine gun. And so by the end of it, everybody's crying everybody's yelling and that guy had set the tone. He wasn't the leader, he wasn't the highest member of the team. But if there's one speech and one person you remembered and one person who everybody there, 600 people would say, is like, the epitome
Ami of what they wanted. Team 32b. It was that guy and and I think about that a lot because people sometimes think you got to be the CEO, you got a mcraven, you got to be the head of the team, but like this guy was what they call the heart and soul of the team. And I think that that is something really important to take with you for the members of your team. And for the people listening, who aren't at the top, like you don't have to be at the top to be the person that everybody goes to and that stuck with me ever since that day.
It's really powerful. So as somebody who walked a very unconventional path started with nothing, like how do you walk that path? How do you go from being that guy to running
something? You know this this I think this guy's an interest in want to stay on for a second. You know we have a saying we do the work, I think it's a well-known saying we just say it can turn thinking too, but I think one of the ways that people
Realize is super easy to get ahead is there's two things. Curse of competence, which means there are actually very few competent hard-working driven people in this world way more than I think, people realize and you've seen it before. Like, you've seen when somebody goes 10% more than the norm. It's pretty rare, actually, like, how many people have you had come in here and not impress? You just be kind of like everybody else. And then you notice the guy who's like, oh no, he's here before everybody else. Oh, he stays a little bit later than
Nobody else could be 10 minutes on both ends. Oh, he likes submitted a brief and an update without being asked, like, do the work be that one competent human in a ocean of humans who are complacent, instead of competent. And then the second thing, I think that surprised me about how easy quote-unquote easy. It was to succeed. Is that most people say they want things?
But they say it almost like hopes instead of wills. And so you know, my husband and I kind of talked about this a lot. We're like like do you want it or are you going to do it? And he has this annoying saying he always says to me, which is like, you know, are you a good white shark, or are you a great white shark? And he says it's really enough. He says it's a very often when we're working out which is what I really want to murder him but it's it's like a little family motto. Like are you going to be kind of
Dov. Okay. And good. Are you going to be great and the difference between good and great is 10% and nobody stripes for it? So for people listening, I mean, I don't know. Look how easy is that? Be there 10 percent earlier and stay 10% later than something. Everybody else at your company for six months by. Watch What Happens. And if that doesn't get noticed with that company, go to the next one, or build the next company in the ten minutes that you're there in the beginning, in the end. It's what I did at Goldman Sachs I got
Nice by the most, senior director and then I had multiple job opportunities after that. I wasn't smarter than anybody else. I didn't go to any fancy schools. I didn't have an MBA then, but I worked slightly harder than everybody else. I was competent and I did a little bit more than everybody else and that was it
and somebody's aggressive when they are working harder than other people. When you can tell they want it, there's it's a joy to be around. Like, there really is something. I talk about this a lot.
A lot like don't make me drag. You don't make me drag you. I'll drag you across the Finish Line if I have to because I am going to succeed but goddamn like if you can make me sweat, that's thrilling when I'm around people that might. Whoa, I look at this person, like, they're really showing up there playing to win. It's intoxicating, it's just for the right person for me. That's a thrill to be around. I love that so much and it really will give people a lot farther than they think. Yeah, I know. How did.
You actually start learning like do you have a process for how you learned all this stuff? Because you were just saying earlier you're now a finance person. Like you really understand the finance of a deal but you weren't a finance person so you went from journalism to act like straight-up Goldman Sachs obviously. There was something in the middle. But like, how did you go down the process of learning something that you did not previously know at all?
What I've been Amazed by in life? Is that most people don't ask questions. They pretend like
Like they know things. Yes, at the top, all the way to the bottom. Why? Because they think, they think that if they ask questions, they looked up and what I found is I was trained as a journalist to do, one thing, ask questions and actually the better, the question, the better the result as a journalist. That's all it's the only thing and so I never Associated asking questions with looking dumb. Hmm. In fact, I don't care to this day. I ask stupid questions all the time. In fact, when we look at it,
Well, I'll often say explain to me this, like I'm six and then if they bring me a very large deal, Sam Zell is famous for this. I'm a big Sam Zell fan. He wrote the subtle know, am I being too subtle famous? They call them the grave dancer and he was a
brave dancer. Yeah, it's quite the name. Uh-huh. He
was famous for turnarounds of real estate businesses so he would take them out of the Grave. They would say danced on it. But he would take these businesses that we're going to fail and then turn them around and build them to some of these huge.
And and Sam just passed away actually and he famously when they would bring him a deal like a you know, some multi-hundred million dollar deal, they were going to do one deal, they threw it in front of him. Big deal had to deal book, professional all these stats and everything and he just flipped it back to him and he said, should we do the deal? The guys are like, you know, I've 400 Pages prepared, here he goes. Give this deal to me in a one-page brief and then we'll know you understand it acts facts. Yeah
and it's so
Gordon. Oh my God, I'm constantly telling people say your thesis in a single sentence. Yeah, because if you can't say in a single sentence, you don't understand
it. You don't understand it. And I realized this for myself to, in fact, if you want to get ahead quickly, I think, you know, a sort of associating yourself with people who already have, the things that you want is really important. One of the easiest ways to do that back in corporate land, was everybody fought for one job and that was the chief of staff job. You wanted to be Chief of Staff to one of the senior leaders. And the reason why is because you learned one, what do they
They care about and how do you own what they care about from the daily briefs you put together for them? And so you actually got a way to steal their 10,000 hours by looking at the very few things that they looked at every day the determined what was important for them. And so briefing has become really important that my company and people get annoyed with me
on that. Say like I need to do briefs like this is to
do brief sounds hot. Also, I did there, let me tell you, there's nothing sexier than a hot brief. And it's funny because my team the other day,
There's this one woman and her team, I'll shatter out Matilda. Who does incredible briefs? And why does that matter? Because it shows me how you think and the way that you think tells me how you work and how you work, tells me what you prioritize. And so these briefs are incredible. And the best way to learn them is you can actually see examples of the president's Daily Brief and who could have a more succinct important Daily Brief than the president of the United States. And so a lot of my team will look at that and they'll also look at briefs for some of
The largest CEOs out there. And so if you have a team at all, get them in the habit of doing this and and that I think is an incredible skill to get good at.
Yeah, I love that the most. Yeah, we will definitely be doing that.
I'll send you some examples of what
I had. That would be incredible. Yeah. Okay. So, when you're going about learning something for me, anyway, it's really rudimentary. It's I need to know the terms. Yeah. So that's going to be the first thing.
In fact, I went on a I went on a similar Journey for a very different reason. So when covet hit, I realized who the people. So going back to all my time in the inner cities, I was like, they're going to get obliterated. I didn't understand money printing yet. So I just thought they're fucked and so I was like, okay I've got to find a really tactical like personal finance vain to get people in on the show so that I can help but I didn't understand Finance at all. I'm good at making money. I'm not good at investing money and so
so I was like, okay, I'm going to start learning about this, bring people on all that starts with learning, the Lexicon figuring out, who the players are and doing what I call reading. And swarms now reading could be YouTube, whatever. You're just taking a topic, you trying to see it from, as many different angles as humanly possible, if you ever seen those like sculptures that are made out of trash but you can only see what they are from like one specific angle. Okay, that's life. Yeah. And so if you're looking at business from the wrong angle, it looks like this big crazy mystery and it looks like Klaus Schwab is, you know, the
Madman. He's going to take over. Yeah. You start twisting it around and you realize, oh, she's a bunch of people who think that there are smarter than they are. And they really should learn to distrust themselves. But once it clicks into place and you realize it's eve jobs was right and world is created by people. No smarter than you then it's like, oh I'm seeing how this really is. But to do that, you have to see it from a lot of different angles. So when I'm reading about a topic I'm trying to get as many different perspectives on that thing as I can so that I can triangulate on what the truth really is. Then once I have that and I
I've a sense of what this is. I'll formulate my own hypothesis hypothesis will make predictions. Then I go test that prediction. Now, if that prediction is accurate, then I know that I'm actually understanding this and this is whether you're talking about business or romance, boys, and girls. Your brain is a prediction engine. Once you realize that it is very hard to discern. What is objectively, true? Very hard even. Even at the level of physics, we don't know. Yeah, so objective truth. So you get into perspective and interpretation. Okay, cool. But all of these
These things make a prediction. So I think if I do this I'm going to get this outcome. Well, do it. If you got that outcome, then your understanding your mental map of the world is pretty close. If you try it, you get something completely different. You need to understand your mental model is broken. So if you point to other people, it's their faults, the economy's fault. No, no. You didn't understand something that's why it broke because let's remind st. Kobe that booze don't block dunks. It doesn't matter how much somebody's trying to trip you up. Doesn't matter how.
Bad. The economy is there is a solution to that puzzle. You just didn't find it and so if you can own that update, your mental model and try again, just recognizing it as a prediction engine. So, that's how I go in to learn any new thing. Does Ashton sound roughly analogous to what you
do. I actually think I am much Dumber on this, so the
way I'm going to say, it isn't Dumb. Whatever you're about to say different
perhaps. So I'm much less scientific.
Check. So, when I want to start learning something, I just go where the game is played and then I just get in. And so, what that would mean in the beginning was, I didn't understand Finance. I wasn't smart enough to do what you said, you know, read and swarms. Go find a predictive. I was like, where are Smart Finance people? I guess this company called Vanguard, that's located here. Could I get a job there? And I go I bet if I get a job their
job though cause they're gonna be like do you know Finance
know the funny thing about humans are they
They love to hear themselves talk. And so, one of the secrets to getting a job places, you just ask a lot of
questions that I mind trick.
Nice. Yeah. So at the time, I sat next to this lady Tara and I was like, so what do you do? She's like Securities and I'm like, oh gosh, that's a lot of work because I thought she was talking about security at the like, you know, she had a gun but she was actually talking about. Wait,
you were applying for the job and at Vanguard, and you didn't know what his supplier
is sitting at a conference next to her to be fair, okay? So I started at a conference is
that we were you
The conference to learn about Finance. Yes, okay, Finance conference, got it, man. I hope people are drinking this in to not know, to be at a, at a conference for finance and to not know what a security is. That is amazing. Your story gets better by the
second. Yeah. And again, why was I at the conference about Finance? Because I wanted to get into Finance, but I didn't know anything about it. So I just said, well, let's go to a place where they're talking about Finance, so I go to a conference, then I sit next to the slide, I get curious about her. I asked her all about her. I asked all about Vanguard, I get really
curious about her job. What does she care about? What did she do? What's their mission? And what I get all those questions. I write down the answers and so I'm actually getting the cheat code to what a hiring manager cares about it. Vanguard, because I'm asking her questions and then she gets intrigued by the fact that unlike most humans I'm not talking at her, I'm asking her information and I'm very tuned in. I'm like focused on her intently and I follow up which most people also. Don't do I send an email afterwards. There's a so amazing to talk to you. Here are three things. I learned super interesting. Love to have coffee with you. A
Time we have coffee again, I just asked a bunch more questions and then she asks me to apply for this very was a rotational development program. So tons of people all these fancy degrees everywhere and little Cody who didn't know what a security or a mutual fund was. But I think, you know, the difference was I was really curious and that is an abnormal thing in a world of humans who pretends that, they know what they mean. So crazy. And then, so if I was trying to do this again, I would do the same thing when I
I wanted to get into content. What did I do? I just went and tried to talk to humans, who knew something about content that I wanted to know. So if I wanted to understand media today, I would probably get really curious and I would learn on somebody else's dime. I think in a job today is like a free MBA. In fact, it's an MBA that they pay you for and its really underrated to have a job early on the average employee at Vanguard they say, they spent a hundred thousand dollars on training.
Employee when I was making thirty thousand dollars a year. So I was given this free MBA at Vanguard not to mention three licenses that I've carried for the rest of my life. That have to be registered at a company. I couldn't get him any other way. So I think people should just go get a fucking job working for somebody, learning from them and go where the games played. And then the amazing part is they could start in a factory with you and if they're really hard workers, they're super curious. And they keep asking if they know thyself continuously.
You're going to keep promoting a really smart, a very hardworking, very curious, iterating human and you'll promote them to different things that they want to that are within their skill sets. And so I probably to learn. I just, I like to steal other people's 10,000 hours. I want to go over the games planned. I want to sit with a bunch of winners and I want pressure because then I think you can learn and it's you know, Lisa and I were talking about this a little bit earlier, but there is scientific research that shows that being surrounded by top performers, increases your performance.
Spy 15% and being around underperformers, decreases your performance by 30%. And so if you're in a company with a bunch of underperformers, get in one where it is hard. And if you are hanging out with friends, that all our underperformers, get in one, where yours with some top performers because you know, you're going to earn 30% more money, you're going to earn. Actually, what is it? You're going to earn, 45% more money if you're around top performers, then if your
Around underperformers and I think most people don't think about that. Like people talk shit about Goldman, I'm like that place has amazing for a young hungry person. It's awful at a certain point but for young hungry person, it's like, top performers that are make me earn more that are going to put pressure on me. It's the only way diamonds are made. It's the same thing at
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