we need to change things fundamentally while people will still even give us an opportunity to do so, like it will even give us the trust and confidence to think that we can change things for the better because like the Ultimate Enemy here is just despair is just utter hopelessness and despair whatever Joe Biden does if he gets elected it has to be big it has to be bold, you know, there's no doubt that the Affordable Care Act
It was a big leap forward but it was as the president said the other day President Obama. It was never meant to be the final step. It was a step forward. There is an opportunity to do big structural things. Like the one you've suggested Universal basic income. I think the things that have that have seemed sort of utopic and radical in the past now seem like pragmatic answers to a large number of
Americans.
I am thrilled to welcome to Yang speaks or vice versa. This is the Yang speaks X-Files crossover. It's like a superhero team-up Marvel DC. Yeah, exactly know it's great to be with you Andrew always and what an irresistible pairing, you know.
Yes, it's like half of us. He had Studio has come to life exactly and everybody misses those. So how have you been? Yeah, I've been good in the scheme of things. I just working hard trying to do as much positive stuff as possible get money out to people we're now at six and a half million dollars in direct economic aid to people in micro grants a between 250 to $1,000.
Just launched this data dividend project this week. I don't know if you saw that we're trying to get people paid for their data. So that's really exciting and positive. Yeah, so we're staying busy. Just trying to do good things obviously trying to help Joe whenever they ask me for help or so. We're hosting an event for him online with Tammy Duckworth next week.
That's great. That's great. Will he must be feeling good right now sitting on top if anyone had told you that going into July the Joe Biden would be leading the race by 12 to 14 points. You would have told them they were nuts and it speaks to the Caprice of American politics because no one could have foreseen in early in the early part of this year.
All of the intervening events that have really exposed Trump in a very very dramatic way, you know, there's all this talk about masks. He's really been unmasked by these crises and it's it's turn this race on its head. Yeah, the
bunker strategy of Joe Biden which obviously is not like a real strategy. I mean it just sort of like happened happened. I but I experienced it on the trail where I remember when he won, Massachusetts and he'd literally spent zero days in Massachusetts and zero dollars and zero staff and seeing that it's like wow like Jo like like joking wind without setting foot anywhere in the state.
And we're I think we're seeing that again. Now where Joe's built up name recognition and familiarity is so high with so many Americans that it's not like you need to see him necessarily everyday on your TV screen or at a local rally in order to feel like you know him and that you're willing to support him.
Yeah, you know, I don't know I think in some ways he's a very familiar figure in other ways. He's not I think that the way people know him though is the most significant way right now, which is they know him to be a decent human being they know him to be an empathetic human being they know they know him to be a caring human being and those are qualities that they are sorely lacking or that they see is sorely lacking in Trump.
In the midst of these crises and so it's really X Don's advantages, but that whole strategy of not going and not spending any money man. If you had just done that imagine you could have been the nominee if you just spent nothing and God know what if I just had proper advice and guidance instead of these other Joker's I had there's a play at edu bask in total anonymity and then you will be catapulted. Yeah to the front of the pack. It'll be the
The greatest political Jiu-Jitsu anyone has ever seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think the strategy requires total familiarity before you start basking in anonymity. But listen your your team your team and you did an amazing job when because youyou literally started in total anonymity and you made yourself a factor.
Presidential race and that's a hard thing to do, you know 25 people are whatever. The number was ran very, you know, and a handful of people really elevated themselves in that race. You are one of those people nobody would have bet on your surviving as long as you did in that race. So all kidding aside hats off to you and your team because you you ran an unconventional campaign and you capture the imagination of a lot of
Of people so there's there's a lot to be said for that. Well, thank you David you and I had a chance to spend time together on that trail, you know, I was with you the University of Chicago, which was a tremendous event. We also bonded over our families. How are you and your family faring during this time?
We did Bond over that and it was something I deeply appreciate we both have special needs kids. Mine. My daughter is grown. Now. She just turned 39 years old and the hardest thing about this Siege this covid-19 Siege has been that she lives in a wonderful place near us in Chicago and they and they are taking wonderful care to make sure that
She and her friends are not being exposed to the virus. But the but the requirement is that she either comes home and stays with us for the duration of the virus or she stays where she lives in the place where she lives and we can't physically see her because they don't want anybody coming in or out who might in fact, I mean that makes sense. I was an either-or situation.
And she's you know, look they're doing a great job. She is there's lots going on there. She loves being with her friends. And so we couldn't remove her from that. She would have gone crazy after a week of being away from them. But but it's hard and she's getting frustrated. She has you know, she has a job. She can't go to and and and she is she'd like to come home and visit and and
You know, so it's that's been that's been very painful to be separated. But you know in the main look what I found Andrew and you probably as well if you were lucky going into this, you're probably handling it pretty well, you know, I was lucky and I mean, I'm lucky enough to be lucky in that I have places to be out of the out of the crosshairs of the
Iris, I my wonderful wife and I have been married for 40 plus years and we still can stand being under the same roof with each other and enjoy that and and I've spent time my son came down to our place with his fiancee. We spent a month with them at the beginning of this. Wow. So you must have gotten to know her much much better. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I mean, this is all these
All great benefits but you know, I'm cognizant everyday that it hasn't been as easy for a lot of people in this country and what it's done is expose the fault lines in our economy that you talked to so eloquently throughout your campaign. People are you know, the there are people who live in this country who are one catastrophe away from ruin and the catastrophe came.
And you see a lot of small business people losing their businesses. You see many people losing their jobs and and obviously a lot of people suffering with this virus. One of the things that is bugging me this week. Is this unbelievable scenario where the president the United States who's in charge of running the government that we count on to respond to the virus is also leading the resistance to the advice that has
Own government is giving and so at a time when Arizona which is a place where I spend a lot of time Arizona is now headed into the Red Zone in terms of this virus. He arrives and the other day spends time in an arena or I guess it was a mega church with 3,000 young people crammed together no mask and it is exactly the scenario that the CDC has warned about
and so you see the present of the United States actually aiding and abetting this virus and you know, it's it is something I thought I'd never see but you know, so I feel for everybody who is suffering with a virus who have lost loved ones and who have lost their livelihoods as a result of this. It's a terribly difficult time.
So one thing that happens when you run for president is you become like a bit of a mattress connoisseurs because you sleep on so many different mattresses, you're like, oh this place is a good mattress and what if you want a good mattress at home, then Helix sleep has you covered go to Helix sleep and get yourself the top rated mattress according to people who know and love mattresses. Can you imagine having that as a job evaluating mattresses? That seems like a
Sweet sweet gig I can say with confidence Andrew that none of the hotels in Iowa New Hampshire that we stayed in had Helix mattresses. They were not very comfortable. But you know, maybe we should have brought a mattress with us wherever we went and then that would have been freaking awesome. Just throw like a jumbo matches on the bus and then we've been cool like it Emperor what I came off the bus I'd be like, really
Bring my Helix Helix Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and to free pillows for our listeners at Helix. Sleep.com Yang. That's 80 L IX sleep.com Yang from the $200 off top-notch mattress. They deliver it to you. It's in a box. It's beautiful. We could have fit the box on a bus easily. FYI, but regardless, he looks sleep.com. / yang.
Bucks off make it
happen.
It's a catastrophic time. There was a commentator called at the Omni crisis, which I have since adopted. But you have this pandemic that then is giving rise to depression-era levels of unemployment. And then now we have police brutality civil unrest layered on top of it and know like how do you dig out of this when you're president?
Literally just as you say going against public health experts going against Common Sense. We have to start digging out of this and I think all the time about the people who've lost their livelihoods. I just saw a story where 95% of New York real estate in Manhattan is still unused and so you have these hot dog vendors and coffee vendors who like push their trucks out to the
This is waiting for customers and then no customers overcome. You know, I mean, how long can that go on for those families to me? We should be dumping money into the economy and people's households as quickly as possible. Just say look, the economy is on fire people's lives are getting destroyed. Like we just need to try and put the fire out and to me. It's a mystery where if 72% of Americans are
Relief, like why isn't Congress debating that every day? I feel like that's bipartisan the polls. I saw said a majority of Republicans and independents are for cash relief as well as Democrats. So that to me is like a is something I also spent a lot of time on right now is trying to help candidates push that bill through Congress. It's being considered in the house right now and Senate it's got I believe it's up to a couple dozen co-sponsors and in some cases.
Humanity forward is supporting opponents of members of Congress who are not signed on to the cash relief bill because to me right now if you're not into Cash relief, then you're just missing what's happening.
well, and I think it speaks to the wisdom of your longer term proposal for Universal basic income to put that floor beneath people and also to also to recognize that people have worth in our society who are not rewarded for that now including parents who are home and taking care of a special needs child for as one example, but
Um, you know, one of the things that has been interesting and exasperatingly is listening to the president and all when he talks about the economy. All he talks about is the stock market. Well half Americans don't have stocks don't have equities and that's not the that's not where the crisis is, you know, and I understand that it's important for Corporate America to have capital and I'm not you know, but the real
Prices is in the ability of people data data survive in a time when our economy is still in many ways shut down. It's certainly not at Full Throttle. So your proposal takes on new resonance because as I said before it's not just this crisis but there are families all over this country who are who are a tragedy away from
a financial crisis and that will be true. Even when the the economy is restored. Yeah, the the economy being restored. I've been trying to figure out what the recovery looks like and the estimates I've seen say that 42 percent of the jobs are gone for good which makes sense to me, you know you I would estimate half and so if Economist come in with 42 I say okay forty to fifty percent of these jobs are gone forever that alone puts you at 16 to 18 million jobs gone.
And we can look around us that many of these states that are reopening. They're not coming back a hundred percent full bore mean you can see in the restaurants and bars and I haven't been to an airport, but I'm pretty sure that airports fairly sparsely used right now manifestly. And so and and you just mentioned. I mean you were seeing surges in cases in Arizona and Texas and Florida that are going to end up having
having you know, I like obviously a huge dampener on anyone feeling secure and going out and doing things that would help drive the economy to me at this point. The main variable is the vaccine and when you and I were talking about this election in November Trump's down by an historic amount for an incumbent at this point, I mean, you know much more about past elections than I do certainly in modern sure. It's unusual for the incumbent to be down 12 points.
You know for four months out. Hmm. Yeah. No, I think this is this is a this is a very pronounced deficit for an incumbent and and frankly given how inelastic our electorate has been. It's a big margin for any any race at this point that said four months ago. We didn't foresee any of this. We don't know what the next four months are going to hold.
We know that Trump is a guy who is completely untethered by norms and will do anything to win and he's got the levers of government. I expect on the vaccine. He will under any circumstance. He will announce a vaccine whether that vaccine materializes are not after November 3rd. He will announce a vaccine and he will he will I think he will overrule Republicans in the Senate and he will
Extend unemployment insurance and and frankly they he should do that. But you know, he has some tools available to him to try and change this thing up and and then we have the issue of voting and how that's going to go and the opportunities for voter voter suppression. And so, you know, my my advice to the Biden Camp is to enjoy these numbers, but don't inhale
Well because there there's there's a lot to go here and you've got to you know, baseball. They say see the ball into the glove make sure that you catch it. They've got to see this right to the very end and and it you know there this is not Trump is not going to go out meekly. He will you know now I think Andrew that his
That his problem is that his reaction is to double down on what he knows and he hasn't shown the ability. I mean what is killing him right now is his own behavior the way he's handled this virus and the the initial denial and now another round of denial telling people that this thing is going away at the very time that and standing in the very state where no it's actually peeking again. It makes him look,
Obtuse and and you know completely focused on his own storyline rather than reality his handling on the issue his handling of race. You know. Now it kneeling was his tactic back in 2016. No, he was the guy who made Colin Kaepernick who put a big Target on Colin Kaepernick now, he says he's going to use US Marshals to protect statues around the country and he just announced I guess that he's going to have a big event at Mount Rushmore.
On on the 3rd of July. So what you see is this is his new kneeling is going to be protecting statues and you know, it's code for other things, but but he doesn't have the ability, you know, the American people it seems to me are showing Great Character and their reaction to all of this and and he is not and they know it and what's driving his numbers down is just how miserably
Handled the virus how miserably is handled this race issue, you know it when the economy was going well and everything seemed to be going well people who were on the bubble would say, you know, I hate the way Trump behaves but everything's going well and you know, he's strong and he knows how to get things done and so on well now he doesn't look very strong and the cost of incompetence and device.
- and narcissism is becoming very clear to people and it's going to be hard for him to come back from that. You know, not that he can't but it is he's in a very deep hole and he's got the shovel in his hand.
I couldn't agree more 72% of Americans in one survey. I saw said this is the darkest time in American history in their lifetimes mean that's not the kind of thing that makes you want to sign up for four more years of the incumbent. And yeah, you look at this and he's got a he's dug himself in historic whole I agree that his go to play book is is looking worse and worse like it, you know, just trying to
Lean into some cultural Flashpoint and say look, I'm here defending the statues. I'm here. I'm going to go to Mount Rushmore the Kong flu or like, you know, whatever distraction he's going to try and use I feel like it's not working and he's getting increasingly desperate because he can sense that. None of it is working, but he doesn't really have another Playbook to go to and to me Democrats or so.
Is by 2016 where anytime you say to them? Hey Jose winning. They're like, oh no, but we thought Hillary was winning and look what happened. So don't don't believe the polls know Trump is going to pull a repeat. So I look at the four and a half months ahead. And I agree with you that that's like the major variables that four months ago. We couldn't have predicted this. So what happens in the next four months. Is there a vaccine?
Then that changes people's mindset or a sense about the future. The debates would be another possibility. I suppose though. I'm skeptical that that that would actually be a key. Well, let me interrupt you. Let me interrupt you on the let me interrupt you on the debates because I think it's a really interesting thing. You know, the Trump strategy right now is Biden is an addled, you know week doddering old man, and he's
Really in control in down in in Tulsa. You said, you know, he's going to surrender everything to the radical left to the Mob and so on but the other half of that equation is he's arguing that Biden doesn't have the strength to bring the economy back and now but the whole premise is Biden doesn't have the mental acuity to be present which is kind of remarkable coming from a President Who advised the country to ingest
Lysol as a strategy for dealing with covid-19, I mean, he's not exactly a poster child for mental acuity. But beyond that he's really lowering the bar for Biden in these debates. I mean, he is painting such a a dark picture of Biden's capacities that when Biden shows up and you were on a debate stage 11 times. Yeah. He's going to clear that bar. I feel pretty confident and and you know back in your
Too young to to have at least two maybe have focused on this but 1980 Ronald Reagan was running against Jimmy Carter the country, you know, it was double-digit inflation and unemployment and and you know the country actually set aside and malaise stagflation. Yeah, and he was going and the country decided they were going to fire Jimmy Carter, but they weren't sure about
About Ronald Reagan they felt he was too too extreme to right-wing too dogmatic and they had one debate and Ronald Reagan showed up and he was genial and he was warm and he was reassuring and the bottom dropped out on Carter after that debate. You know, it's possible that Biden can actually seal this simply by clearing the very low bar that Trump has set
And that's the you know, that's the downside of the Trump strategy. He's painting bite in a way that I think Biden can easily SWAT aside. And and and so he may have been he may be setting his own trap here Trump.
That's a great point. It's true that
if you present Joe as completely infirm, then he shows up and is completely normal stable competent fired up not doesn't even to be fired up is what you're suggesting is long as he clears the down bar now. So I agree with your estimation that it's unlikely that the debates are going to somehow be some launching pad for Trump particularly if he's saying that
No, not like Jose is caricature of himself. And so I look up and I try and imagine what the
Paths to victory for Trump are and to me a lot of it comes down to voter suppression are people able to vote in November and have their votes counted we're seeing already now with all the mail and votes at the state level. Well first we saw a massive lines and difficulties in Georgia, but then we're also seeing
Multi-day counting period for mail in votes in many states and so the questions in my mind are around November 3rd, it happens. And then are we going to know like yeah, whether that that vote ends up being something that people have trust and confidence in like that to me is a major variable that it's tough to tough to predict or forecast, I think.
That would be one way you can imagine this somehow going very very very badly for the country as a whole if you wind up. Yes contested election that drags on for days and days. Well, listen Andrew. There are only two outcomes in Donald Trump's estimation, either. He wins or the election was stolen. He doesn't allow for any third option and you know,
you know that he's already setting up the storyline mail-in votes lead to fraud. I think that's a little bit of a trap for himself to because he's making mail-in voting socially unacceptable for his own voters and that could end up hurting him, but you can see what he's doing. And and yes, I think if you look at the elections, we just had these primaries in Kentucky and New York. We're not going to know the outcome for a week or more because of mail-in voting.
Is going that is very likely going to happen in states around the country in two thousand and and 20 in the fall and I thought there could not be a worse time for that. If you had a person who had some regard for our institutions and his constitutional place in Donald Trump. It would be one thing but he he cannot accept defeat and so he will Instead try to
tear down the process and create a sense of of jaundice about the result and he'll have helped in that. I mean this is part of the Russian project and other malign forces in the world who want to create, you know doubts in the minds of Americans about their own democracy. So it is a date you're absolutely right to point that out and it's it is a great concern and we all ought to be eyes open about this and as much as possible.
Just the temptation to be or not the temptation but resist the impulse to be manipulated by our worst fears here. I mean the fact is there is no history of massive voter fraud in our country nor. Is there a history of massive voter fraud or any major voter fraud attributed to mail-in voting and we should not allow that storyline to
to compound now so that to me is the biggest unknown most legitimate concern because I look at it and I don't think the economy is going to come roaring back between now and November. I think the vaccines are major variable that you're right that he may move Heaven and Earth to have something that you can at least talk about but it's not like anyone's going to be actually vaccinated at any scale prior to election day.
So to me the landscape is very Pro Jo and I mean he's up now. Like I don't see that changing barring something calamitous on the joe side really, you know, like it's his Trump is digging himself a deeper and darker hole. I think a lot of it is just that Democrats are very very scarred where they just cannot bring themselves to breathe easy, which I understand because
you have to run through the tape and see the ball in the glove as you're saying like we have to work work work. I mean, it's one reason why I'm ghosting events where Joe and and doing everything I can to help him win, but to me objectively Joe is winning Trump is losing and there's no reason to think that something's going to turn that around in the near future unless the process ends up being such a mess that we can't have confidence in the results. So that's something I'm also
Help with on the side. There are some people I know who are working on clearly the mail-in voter voter.
Provisions in states around the country. I mean to the extent that those aren't in place in some states you have to ask yourself. Like what the heck are you doing? Especially given the current
backdrop?
Let's talk about mail and stuff for all of our sakes. You don't want to go where lots of people are. So what if you need to go to the Post Office. Don't worry just go to stamps.com. We use stamps.com on the campaign because we had to mail a lot of stuff to a lot of people will stamps.com. You can print postage on demand skip the line at the post office just get er done from home and they even give you discounts on that action. It's a freaking no-brainer.
Stamps.com that thing stay away from the post office. Stay healthy stay good. Stay patriotic. Frankly. We were very very intelligent with our time and the campaign's this was a massive Time Saver for us instead of lugging packages to the post office and weighing them and all that stuff and do it right in the office or right at home. Go to stamps.com print it figure out everything you need right where you are massively simple massive Time Saver. We are big fans of stamps.com post office line 20th century Stan.
Stockholm 21st century right now our listeners going to get a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without having to make any long-term commitments to go to stamps.com and enter Yang you click the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in why Ang Yang that stamps.com enter Yang. Yeah spell my name.
You know one thing I wanted to talk to you about and you have like this storied political history helping many people win. The one that one that we all I believe know you for most prominently is obviously Barack Obama. You helped get him into the White House. I guess twice if you want to look at it. That way you helped him get him into the White House and stay in the White House and and you'd been working with them for years and years and I read this op-ed that you wrote that I Believe In The Washington Post where you've been an ally to
Not just Barack but black politicians for decades. Yeah, and you've considered yourself career. Really? Yeah your entire career and you so you consider yourself someone who's helped make history on that side and yet now you're thinking that the work that you've done wasn't enough that there were disparities that were bigger and deeper even than what you were seeing and I feel like many Americans
I've also been awakened to some of these harsh racial inequities by the killing of George Floyd and black lives matter.
Yeah. Listen, I think this is a historic moment. You know, I've lived through a lot of these moments in the television age. And you know, I remember what the civil rights movement did in terms of raising Consciousness. The the the brutal assault on Marchers at Selma led to the Voting Rights Act. But this is different this this because For the first time in my lifetime and I think for the first time in the
Life of our country. There is a broad public discussion about institutional racism systemic racism that that really flows back to the beginnings of our country. And what I wrote was that I am I am ashamed that I haven't spent more time thinking about that that systemic racism and you know, I have yes, I
I've worked for a lot of candidates of color from the beginning of my career as a political strategist and I help you know break down these barriers, but I haven't had a lot of conversations with my black friends about what their day-to-day lives are. Like what are the things that they fat what were their encounters with police? Like what were their you know, what were the barriers that they faced at work? What are the slights that they've
Do it. You know, there are you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said, you know when you expose it to the light when you expose America to the light you see racism everywhere that is true and we have just accepted this as a kind of well that's you know, those things are sort of a part of life and I think that a lot of people are now taking another look and saying it's not just how police treat.
Eat citizens have police treat people of color. It's it is pervasive in the workplace. It is pervasive in Social settings. We just never have afforded to our our black brothers and sisters their full rights, we have not it has not happened in 400 years and I think people are that's why I think Trump is meeting.
Such resistance here. There is a even people who Andrew who are not really that motivated by this issue understand that the last thing we need is more divisiveness. The last thing we need is more appeals to to separation to to to discrimination and bias and so on. I mean Trump has weaponized race.
As an issue at a time when people want everyone to put those weapons down and focus on the real issue. Yes. Yeah, how can we start to heal and address some of these century-old inequities certainly for me?
part of it is universal basic income and starting to balance out the economy in ways that work for people of every background but particularly for people of color and women and folks who are completely marginalized by our current economy and which is going to be more and more of us and I obviously made the case that it's going to be a lot of us due to technological change, but it was already happening to Black and
Brown people and women and underrepresented minorities and a lot of the people that were talking about. You just need to try and make things work better for more people and the most direct straightforward way we could do it would just be to start putting money into people's hands directly so that your kids have a better chance to learn you have a better chance to think I just met yesterday with four women. They were all women in the Bronx who received $1000 from Humanity forward. We gave a thousand dollars to a thousand people.
Apple in the Bronx that were identified as struggling economically.
and one of them said that she had I don't know if she was exaggerating but she said she had five dollars in the bank and and then she got a thousand so then it was like a thousand and five and she said that it helped her think more clearly and that really was like a punch in the gut for me because I think that there are so many people in our country that have had that I can relate to that now the certainly this doesn't solve all of the racial inequities that were talking about but at least it gets us like
You know like a little bit down that path. My greatest fear David is that things just aren't working for more and more Americans and you and I for better for worse are like part of these institutions and Frameworks and like, you know, establishments and like I can see for many many Americans like they're just losing confidence that any of our stuff is working and that there's like a presumption to the work.
That you and I do which is like look if we can get some people into power and passive policies and like actually trying right this ship we can improve things but I feel like fewer and fewer people are listening and that there's like less and less trust and faith that one we know what we're talking about or or can like understand what other people are going through and to that. There's actually going to be something meaningful that changes.
For that. Yeah, like there's like and I've called it like the era of institutional decline or are of institutional distrust and at this point it's rational to distrust which is freaking terrible. But like I think that's where it's gotten too for many many people and and for these issues of racism. It's so deeply embedded where like if you're a black person looking up and saying like Cornel West this also hit me like a gut punch when
Cornel West said like look we've tried Black Faces in high places and nothing has changed for us. So like what what do you expect us to do at this point? And you hear that in your like holy crap, like we need to change things fundamentally while people will still even give us an opportunity to do so, like it will even give us the trust and confidence to think that we can change things for the better because like the Ultimate Enemy here is just despair is just utter hopelessness and despair.
There and I can see despair growing and Rising throughout the country. I mean right now we have like, you know this Amna crisis like Mental Health crisis that pre-existed before the pandemic and now like the Mental Health crisis on steroids. And so thinking that we're going to somehow reason people to a point where it's like know if we come together we can do X and Y and Z like people are just losing hope
Yeah, listen, I think that we are at a critical juncture and there's no doubt. You're right about the crisis of confidence about all our institutions and you know, it comes at a time when change is coming more rapidly than ever and because of social media, there is an immediacy to all of this that I think creates a that adds to the anxiety. And so and so we have government this is a mismatch that's always bothered.
And me or that's been bothering me lately. You've got government that is designed in a democracy to move slowly when public opinion is divided and we've seen the impact of that over the last many years and then you have changed coming more rapidly than ever because of technologically because of technology and you know, that is a very very difficult mismatch and it you know what I think more than anything.
Is that whatever Joe Biden does if he gets elected it has to be big it has to be bold. There has to be a willingness to really rethink fundamental institutional relationships and he's got to do things that if he gets elected he will have to do things that really substantively make a difference. You know, there's no doubt that
The Affordable Care Act was a big leap forward but it was as the president said the other day President Obama. It was never meant to be the final step. It was a step forward and it needs to be accelerated. I think there's an opportunity to do that. Now, I think there's a public recep tivity to do it. Especially after the crisis has laid bare so many of the problems with our health system. I think that you know, there is an opportunity.
To do big structural things like the one you've suggested Universal basic income. But you know, I look at these for example these inner city communities. I live on the south side of Chicago and I've seen communities hollowed out all the economic activity gone schools. Not what they need to be and you know, all the sort of pillars of those communities are gone, and these kids are growing up in an environment.
With a lot of violence and you know it is it to me. I don't know how kids come out of that environment without PTSD because it's just so stressful many of them many of them do have PTSD mean that those like that case is the trauma studies like you can't learn if you're getting traumatized, you know at home or in your neighborhood and unfortunately, that's the reality for many many of our kids. So we need to make big Investments to
To change that and you know, I mean I know reparations is a very loaded term but we do have a debt that we have to pay and and it should be and there should be transformational of neighborhoods. And you know, look there is there is there is there are economic there's economic depression not just in the African-American community that has to be addressed and we
should say that as well. The impacts of change that you've talked about. So eloquently have hit a broad swath of communities. It's just that the African-American Community started off behind in so many ways because of the institutional barriers that we've created. So there's a lot of work to be done. But here's the good news. I think the things that have that have seemed sort of utopic and radical in the past now.
Seemed like pragmatic answers to a large number of Americans. I think there's more of a receptivity to fundamental changes that aren't just nibbling at the margins and I hope that if Joe Biden becomes president that he and his team take advantage of that and and really Advance a Visionary, you know set of policies that will that will make change and that will
Appear to people in their lives as important and making change these Democratic institutions, you know, these Democratic institutions rely on the confidence of people in them to actually promote meaningful policy and change and now more than ever that's important. By the way, you know, you're a very successful business person. This is true of capitalism as well.
I think there's a there's a crisis of capitalism and a crisis of democracy and their intertwine and capitalists need to become part of the solution here this you know the idea of more and more inequality of more wealth aggregation at the top while large numbers of Americans are struggling below. That's an unsustainable model and and we need our leaders to make that clear.
And we need Business Leaders to step forward and say we understand and we're going to we're going to bring about fundamental changes. Now the argument I've made is that we're just measuring our economy all wrong that we should be measuring it by human. Well being Health mental health freedom from substance abuse childhood success rates environmental sustainability and things that would actually speak to how we're doing as a society because to your earlier.
Point the stock market and how families are doing have essentially no relationship anymore mean when these companies announced layoffs their stock price goes up and you can see clearly that many of these companies can do more with fewer workers people increasingly are seen as like a dragon on your business. Yeah, and that's a big danger. Now, you know, one of the things I remember so clearly from my tenure in the White House during the last economic crisis was, you know, companies inovated and they figured out
I had to do more with fewer people because labor is a large part of their overhead and so cost. Yeah, and you're going to see that this time as well. And you know, that is a that is a big concern as we as we come out of this. So there is a you know, this is a this is a very momentous time, you know, it started off as a year about Trump or not true.
But these cereal crisis have have really exposed not just him but the work that we have to do as a country and people are really focused on it. And I think that's positive but only if our leaders
respond.
We need a new New Deal a new American social contract a new Marshall Plan the United States of America. I don't know which of those three you like the best in terms of framing it probably but you know, all of them are all of them are set in a different time. I'm not sure that most Americans know what the Marshall Plan it was anymore. But but but the principle is absolutely right. How about we could try
America 2.0. Does that work for you? It was that too wonky and futuristic. Well that certainly contemporary. That's it. Yeah, that may be a little too bloodless but it gets to the point which is we've got to retool here. We need we need a new model within the framework of our democracy and our economic system. We need a brand-new model that enhances the opportunity and enhances opportunity for the broadest number of people that David I'm
I'm legitimately going to pick your world-class political professional brain for a minute because I've been trying to figure out how to pitch this most effectively so so and so my instinct and it's very consistent with me and who I am is to say America 2.0 but I was afraid that might seem alienating to some people and so I was reaching backwards and using things like new American contract new New Deal Marshall plan, which you're probably right people have don't even know what the marsh
And as anymore, right? So in your professional opinion, what should we call this effort to reinvent America so that it's actually working for most of us all of us ideally, but well, I'm more of us. Well first let me offer this disclaimer because in the past when I threw these ideas out it generally followed a period of reflection and testing so I kind of knew how people reacted to these things but you know,
So the idea relaunch America, you know is is something that I would think about, you know, this this idea of a hint of an inflection point that has a hopeful feel to it, you know to me 2.0 is a bit too sterile and clinical relaunch America. I kind of like that. We launched America.
Yeah, well David, if you see that doesn't Billboards all over the country, you'll know where it came from that we came up with it during this conversation. What will take a take it from an old political hack my friend test it before you use it because the great thing about you know, everybody thinks of research polling and focus groups as manipulative tools of a cynical political industry, but what I've learned over 40 years of as a reporter and as a
strategist is that the wonderful thing about people is there they are counterintuitive. They you know, they bring to it things that you may not think about and so I'm always eager to hear what people have to say about but I do have it like tested the heck out of everything at the Yang campaign. We're like data data data. So that's how we came up with freedom dividend. We just like tested every name we could have social security for
Was a good one universal basic income?
Well test relaunch America because I think we'll test relaunch America. I think post Trump and given all these crises. I think they'll be there may be a receptivity to that. So we'll see that's my entry. I couldn't agree more people people want people want to know that we recognize the severity of the crises the hole that were in the hole that many families are in like we have to call an end to business as usual because
Dying people are suffering ways of life are disintegrating. I think all the time again about all these small business owners who are getting decimated and the families in the Bronx. I talked to yesterday who are just looking up saying like where the heck am I going to get next month's rent? Like it's everybody and we have to go much much bigger when I've talked to Joe. He's right seem to meet a recognize the need it's funny because like no one thought of Joe Biden as like the transformational figure. He's like, I'm going to change everything.
I mean that's actually one of the reasons why some people were like supportive of some of his opponents like me perhaps but but there's like, yeah, you know what I mean having running ads Joe and you know,
Seeing that like that the love that many people have for him out on the trail. I believe that he is.
Determined to step up like it like I don't think he's going to go and say like, hey, let's just like nibble at the edges. Like I think he understands that we do need like relaunch America. We know we'll have to present to him the data on how best to name this thing. So job number one is have him be our president. Then job number two is actually and I actually want to say this and this could this could be famous last words. I'm much more
Concerned about what happens after Joe becomes president that I am winning the election like I believe that Joe is going to win and become our president but then the real work begins because we're still going to have like tens of millions of Americans who are completely at a loss as to what the way forward looks like. Yeah. I just I think that's such an important point, you know, because there is a you know, there's a passionate desire to get past this Donald Trump era.
And I understand it. But if that's all that happens, that's not enough and my sense is that that's not what Biden wants. I you know, I know Biden well enough to believe that if he if he wins he's going to want to make his his years as president count. He's going to he's going to want to be remembered for something more than just being the guy who beat Donald Trump and let me tell you the opportunity that he has one of the reasons why he's doing as well as he's doing in the polling.
I wrote a piece about this the other day on CNN.com is that he is culturally inconvenient for Donald Trump. He is just not scary to the people who Donald Trump hopes to scare about the Democratic nominee and Trump kind of acknowledged it last week in Tulsa last weekend. When he said when he talked about Biden being the you know, adults sort of captive of the radical left, but he said now he's not
Tickle left. He's never been radical left and I think that was an admission that they just can't make him scary. So they're going to try and make his friends scary, but the opportunity that and you can see it in the numbers Andrew. He's doing far better among white voters. He's doing better certainly better among college educated white voters who Trump carried last time and he's paired the margin down among college non-college educated White
Voters he's even paired the margin down among white Evangelical voters. But Biden I don't think people are going to look at Biden and say he is a radical scary figure and that gives him the opportunity to do some very bold Progressive things because people have confidence that he is not there is not going to throw the system away. He's not an extremist. He's not an ideal log. He's a practical guy. Yeah that
That's actually very very important where if Joe says hey, we're going to do things big in this way. Then it becomes the mainstream thing to do. Whereas if someone else suggested you might look at it and say like, oh that that's very dramatic. I think that's the opportunity that he has and it's a great opportunity for the country. So, you know, I'm and I also the other thing I believe about Biden is if he becomes president, there is a wealth of talent just went and I met you're one of them.
True, but there's a wealth of talent out there. Just waiting to be Unleashed and after four years of mediocrity and and worse and four years of subjugation of public institutions to the political whims of the president and the dumbing down of of government there there. There's just all this energy waiting to explode
load to re rehabilitate the government and innovate the government in a way that can be really historic and Biden has that opportunity and you know, as you know, because you travel around there so many people who want to help so, you know, he has to win the election as you say that's job number one should not be taken for granted and you know, look he's
I think it is Biden's fundamental qualities that as I said earlier really have put him in a strong position here decency empathy, you know experience solidity, but you know, he's been swept Along by forces. No one could have predicted that have really exposed Trump in a big way all that said
with all of this unpredictability, you know, you know, I'm just and knowing that Trump will do anything, you know, it is dangerous to be it is dangerous to look past the election and no one should do that.
Certainly, we have to fight fight fight to make sure that Joe does win and then get to work you actually have presented a very uplifting portrait of what is possible. I agree with it a hundred percent where I believe that we have to do big things and that Joe is going to be very very open to doing things in a bigger way and that he in some ways might be the ideal person to bring
the rest of America along that we have to think bigger so this is the this is the future we have to fight for I don't know if it was your intention David but I think this might have been the most uplifting framing of a bite and presidency that I caught that huh I've seen maybe they can quote from this podcast man they can like like somehow making a doubt of it because I think they're well listen man I don't I don't I don't recall I don't recall Barack Obama ever being up by four
14 points so I don't know that they're looking for that much advice right now they seem to be doing pretty well and I give them and I give them all all the credit for that but you know the one thing the one cautionary note about governance that I have to add is you know there's there's still a Congress and Joe Biden will respect the Congress as a as a co-equal branch of government because he is a creature of that Congress where he spent 36
years but the Congress was you know there was an intentional effort to block positive change during the years of Obama and you know Biden is going to face some of those same forces that will be Republicans who will say if he fails we win Zero Sum game he will have Democrats this a diverse country and Democratic party unlike the Republican party is a very
verse party and there may not be a complete agreement on everything so he's going to have to overcome those hurdles and it will matter you know who controls the Congress because we you know there was a vast difference in the first two years of the Obama presidency when Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and the last six when they did not so you know that that those are questions remember it well I mean you were there yeah you
The different to remember sharply. I know yeah. So yeah, we you're right. We have to get some down-ballot races across the Finish Line as well. We have to give the new Administration a chance to succeed and it's one reason I got to say Dave and I've done this, you know much less than you have but supporting down ballot candidates is so fun and inspirational because you like talk to these folks who are running for State Rep or Congress or sometimes Senator, but generally something else and
they're such great people a lot of the time, you know, they're like running for office in there. Yeah community in Austin, Texas or Massachusetts or wherever it is. I've really enjoyed the heck out of it. I couldn't agree with you more. I'm so inspired by people. I meet around the country who stepped forward. You know, I have a young student who's running for from The Institute of Politics the University of Chicago named Zack step who's running for the legislature in in, Ohio.
He's in you know, he's I think he must be 24 years older or something, but as smart and capable and well motivated young man. As you ever want to meet just just inspiring as all get-out and there are people all over this country like that. That's you know working with young people gives me hope because they they are undaunted by the challenges and unbounded by
conventional thinking and they are all about trying to make the future better. And and I think they have the power to do it. So yeah, I'm you know, I wrote a book called believer Andrew. So I'm kind of my brand is established. I tend to the optimistic side. But even in these dark days, I do see a better future and and I'm pulling hard for it. I love it. Let's put some more young people in charge. I agree we
I think if your Institute of politics alums and students were in charge, we'd already be in much better shape because having met them they were so idealistic and energized you do the next generation of great service David because like they, you know, they get from you a sense of both like practicality but possibility, you know, like you've actually been there you've been to the Mountaintop and I'm a hundred percent sure that some of you are
Students are going to wind up doing something incredible that makes us all proud and makes a huge difference. Well and right back at you. I mean your candidacy inspired a lot of these young people to believe that there was another path and you know, so you've played a great role and I know you'll continue to play a great role in in blazing that trail. Anyway, listen brother. It's great to be with you. I look forward to a time when
Not staring at each other through little boxes on a zoom screen, but we can sit across the table again. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too. All the best to you and the family and yeah, we're going to do our best man. We're going to get the Next Generation fired up and put them in position to lead us in the right direction. Amen. Great to be with you.
