Hello, friends. Welcome back to the show. My guest today, is dr. Mike is ratelle. He's a professor of exercise and sports science, at Lehman College and a co-founder of Renaissance periodization As technology advances at. An unprecedented Pace, the idea of humans living forever feels Within Reach. But what's the truth about? Extending Our Lives? What does the latest science reveal about our pursuit of extended lifespan expect to learn the biggest determining factors to increase longevity. The role of
Genetics where the fasting is the ultimate hack, how steroid usage impact lifespan. The best exercises for living longer, the biggest predictors outside of your body that determine how long you live the biggest myths for extending your life. The truth about blue zones and much more.
But now, ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome dr. Mike is retail.
My kids are tough. Welcome to
show Chris. Thanks for having me again
in a bomb this time. Yes. The eye of
the person who picked me up, blindfolded me put a shot in my arm. I woke up in a helicopter being repelled down to a barn, I have no idea where we are, but interestingly, I do have some ideas about longevity on the brain and an
erection always just getting never
We're talking about longevity.
Bit of a buzzword specially the last sort of five to ten years on YouTube. Sure. How did you come to think about longevity? Constituent Parts? What is it?
Longevity is kind of a big concept and there are two underlying Concepts at least that are important to chat about one is the duration of your life, how long you're alive? And the end run of that is mortality. Like if you die at 97 versus he died at 57, then you lived 40 years longer, whatever you had more longevity. In that sense.
And that used to be kind of sort of. The only way longevity was discussed a generation ago or so and times before that, but there's an important subcomponent sort of part 2 of longevity that has to be in the discussion for it to be the most meaningful discussion possible, and that is variable, the end run of which isn't mortality, but it's morbidity and that is quality of life. So, the two parts of longevity are, how long do you live for, and what is the quality of life that you're
Experiencing during that time. So mortalities how soon you die morbidity is like what are the last 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years of your life? Like because it is a very, very different situation to have two people live to 90 and croak summarily at 90 and one day at the same time, holding
hands very romantic,
but one of them up until two years ago was living
I have to the fullest active independent healthy. Generally speaking could travel, maybe could drive all the way up to
few restrictions on area,
restriction. Yep, the alternative. Is there a people currently in their late 40s? That suffer from a morbid obesity that if you somehow just kept them alive and with technological, innovation, that is increasingly more possible that they kick.
Around for a while. Let's see. Magically. You got someone like that to their 90's or something. Let's use a more realistic example. After age, 70 a person is mostly bedridden requires the care and attention of many. People is bereft of family and friends, and lives in a nursing home, tended to hand, and foot, very identical, mortality. Same day of death, very different degree of morbidity. One person experience
almost
One on one experience, a significant amount. So for the rest of the discussion, we're going to have here. Today we're attending two variables that don't just enhance the probability that you live longer though, they will, but they're also going to enhance the quality of life, you experience as you age, which is really, really important. Because if someone's like, you want to live longer and you're like, yeah, they're like in a nursing home with tubes everywhere. You like
how much
longer like years decades? Like, catching some people want that sort of thing. Some people don't so very important.
Portent distinction.
Is it a trade-off between the
two?
Almost never. But almost sometimes, there is a trade-off between the two for example.
In very difficult athletic Pursuits. There are some data indicate that if you really grind it as an athlete, especially interior later years, you could technically be through putting so much through your metabolism, the total human metabolism. And the amount of sort of damage and chemical alteration, your body takes is kind of like like a candle. If you burn it really fast, it burns out a little quicker
and just
just low-key
There is a situation like
that this is at the extreme end, very extreme various. I think on that later as well. Donald Trump made a comment about. You have a limited number of heartbeats in your life and life exercising speed to them up yet. Not quite right. What Donald
one of the many ways in which Donald Trump is more wise than us. All this, he does have a little bit of a point there, so if you are a hardcore athlete, you may not live quite as long as if you cooled off on the
earning a little bit. However, if you're a hardcore athlete, you'll probably just not suffer nearly as much from Mobility. Restrictions morbidity, things, various Health maladies. You just going to croak a little sooner and by a little, I mean, maybe on the order of months to a few years sooner, but your quality of life is going to just be completely different, especially in your later years. Those distinctions are very rare and they're almost no cases in which mortality and morbidity contradict each other usually,
It's roughly the same stuff, like most of the recommendations will have talked about today, are going to be like a lot of column, a column B. Both checked off,
when it comes to longevity quality of life. What's the biggest movers of the number one? What's the biggest determining Factor? Do, you know, is that a question that can be answered?
Technically in the literature. So it it's difficult to say what the biggest factor is by far because the way you asked that question has to include what is the degree of variation you account for? So if you say that nutrition is the biggest variable, but you're dealing with 100, people being examined further nutrition or trying to correlate lifespan, but most of them are eating decently well, it probably won't be the biggest variable.
But the kind of raw take to be completely honest. In our current environment is probably the degree of adiposity that you carry how much body fat you have and how heavy you are beyond what you were genetically designed to hold. So like the Great Dane effect or the, you
know, like things done, letters
long, large dogs are designed with similar systems, a small dogs and they almost always die like half
Sooner humans are all designed on very similar systems and subsystems. And when you get a human to way for 500 pounds, it's trains everything like crazy.
That's a, a reliable way to shorten your life. One of the most reliable ways to show on your life, would be,
probably one of the most short of extreme drug abuse, like just doing crack or Coke everyday, stuff like that. Extreme prolonged stress and sleep,
deprivation, absolute Junta, Biden
Stuff total laptop type of shit, right? But yeah, as far as things that we see, humans altar in the real modern world today. It's difficult to reduce, both your longevity. How long you live your life span and wildly increase your morbidity in a more dependable way than being severely overweight?
Okay. You mentioned a word that I thought would maybe be the biggest one, genetics, what's the role? Yes, at you.
Jetix, when it comes to life, span longevity and quality of life
Central. And I, it's interesting that the way you asked genetics,
Is insanely insanely pertinent to how long you live and explains almost all of the variants for those wacky stories you here which are often false and sometimes true. Well, my grandfather, he lived till 98. He smoked 10 packs a day and he means son of a bitch. Barely slapped drank all the time. It's on high lift in 98 and usually people Trot out these stories to try to reduce the apparent benefits of improving.
Her lifestyle, because it is, there's kind of a fatalism associated with, like, dude, if if my grandpa live till 98, just eaten raw meat, you know what I'm saying? And smoking, 8 cigs an hour, who, why am I going to go eat kale? That's stupid. I'm not going to waste my time. The thing is Grandpa, probably had just the right stuff genetically. And if you tried at any given age and you tried any given level of genetics that you may have and maybe your closely related to Grandpa in that regard, maybe not so much because you might only be a
Related to Grandpa. And if the gene Shuffle pretty decently, maybe only 1/8 you might have other people in the family that like croquette 55 all of a sudden you're like, yeah, whatever. So genetics matter a ton but they are still altered. So genetics gives you an average of everything's average in your life average in nutrition, average sleep average. Everything genetics will say, you're going to die. Probably about 72, but if you do everything right, you might die at 82, if you do anything wrong, you might die at 50 to 60 to something like that. Very big differences about how
Ever that's settling point of longevity Theory, genetically informed. However,
The reason I said that a deposit, he's probably the most pertinent variable. The biggest one explanatory wise is because it's a variable that you can push all the variables to extremity, you can push your sleep down. You can push your stress sky-high, but it's unlikely. You're going to do that to yourself for very long in the free modern world. Like, if you work any decent job in the US or any of the anglophone countries, modern Asia, Etc. Europe like you're probably not going to like die because you overworked voluntarily not.
- unlikely, but boy, you're a lot of people voluntarily over eating, like crazy. And being that we're are, we allowed to disclose the filming location being that we are in the Austin, Texas? Metropolitan area. Lots of people are eating to such high extents. That I'll tell you this. If you weigh 400 pounds and you Trot out the genetics bullshit to me of what, why you haven't lost weight. I'm drinking you, like, I don't even know because you know like it you can really do.
Unbelievable damage and shorten your life substantially. It kind of doesn't matter where your genetics are at that
point. If you're talking genetics, does that mean?
Old grandparents, and both parents seem to have lived for quite a while. Most people haven't done a full genome assessment or whatever, I don't even know if we've done. Polymorphic trait, like, he is the long-living jail. Here's some of the long jibbing, long
living, who can spare the expense? It's going to be polygenic. But there are mean is not one gene. I'm just making some people only live to 55, or 95 know in between is very bimodal, right? If you look at it, you
Look at genetics from two different perspectives in this regard. At least one perspective is there are no doubt genetic variables about a person that under the hood, cause them to live a long time or live. A short time. You might be able to clear mitochondrial damage faster or something like that. Your genome, the actual like strands of DNA are kept, like less methylated than otherwise. There are a variety of molecular machines that do that. Some people have more effective variance or more of them so on and so forth. You would never even look at a person until that's what they have. They just have that ship. That's what grandpa had when the coal mining days.
He smoked a coal chimney every hour, whatever the fuck he did. He was, he was literally a cigarette, Chris a giant walking cigarette, and he wouldn't die. So, that is Factor number one. There's a bunch of those kinds of things, but the other kind of genetics and it's a straight-up, still genetics that affect. Your lifespan is the genetic propensity for the secondary effects that affect it. For example, if you have a fucking appetite for very tasty, very not good for you foods and you have
Genetically hunger signaling that's just like kind of you're always hungry or whatever.
No pleasure from exercise,
100% propensity to do addictive drugs, a propensity to take Preposterous risks a propensity for poor sleep, that's not under the hood stuff. It's going to effect what's under the hood but it's expressed in other measured variable. So there's two ways to look at the yeah.
Okay. Environment, how does that
impact? Yeah, gravity. Yeah basically in the current modern world,
Environment impacts longevity of very small amount because all of our environments are generally kind of really good good enough that the variance produced by environment is very small. However, in the developing World, environment has really big effects on longevity, still, one of the top Killers, straight up all around the world is indoor air quality. If there are still countries and cultures in which you burn for food and fuel
Like sod or some shit like that wood inside and he's sure goes out the chimney but it believe it or not, some of the molecules straight to the sides and you inhale that shit. You do that for 30 40 years, it's going to impact your longevity like crazy. If you ever been to developing nations like India. For example you'll and the internal circulation of the air stops. External air comes in here like the fuck happened here and that does not stop until you leave India or go away into the jungle because like
Mumbai has an air quality that like if we had that in Austin, there would be like like do not travel to Austin, Texas. For the next two months kind of shit. Like I'm a member of the California wildfires are really big deal in the air quality was like, well it's really bad and I remember being there and I was like the fuck because I had been to Mumbai a few times. I like, man, I could live the lab rest of my life in this, it wouldn't affect me at all. I've been to Mumbai. So outdoor indoor air quality polluted water, contaminated food things that we just really, just don't deal with in the modern world. You go to Japan.
Juan the UK, Germany, the US. It's all free and clear, pretty much. And so, in the environment doesn't have huge effects in that sense, there are other things about the environment that can producer increased, longevity, stress, and things like that. I don't like to call them environment. You can be more specific with those things. But generally speaking environmental factors just aren't a big deal for us living in the modern world. Modern world. How rude everyone's modern in the developed world. It's not a big deal in the developing world. Yeah. It's a huge deal and one of the ways.
To increase human well-being and human lifespan is to help the developing World clean up. Like in the
literal sense just have cheaper cleaner energy,
cheaper cleaner energy, cheaper cleaner, abilities to clean up, look, his like, if you get a lot of energy, they don't exactly clean up your are doing that. If you have a five nuclear power plants, you still have to make sure that your production facilities of all these goods are not spewing, toxic shit. You have to have regulatory framework to make sure cars are increasingly expected to have different standards because they can India.
There's like diesel regular small cars in the road, and they put out some smoke that. I'm like that our cars at home, do
not fucking smell like that. They do not pass our regulatory
burden and obviously, of course, like good governance, largely free markets enough, ability to
generate wealth, all that stuff. So, okay, diet Touch, Somebody fat body weight earlier on, yes, does it matter what you're eating? Does it matter how it impacts you, how should we come to think about diet from a longevity standpoint,
great, a diet?
Diet that can keep your muscle mass a decent levels and does not make you excessively over fat or overweight, probably is something like 80% of what we mean by diets effect on longevity. So if you take two people and the two very different diets but one of the roughly the same body, composition and size. Etc. They're going to get longevity differences from diet alone but they're not going to be enormous on the
Order of probably five years or last just on a heuristic basis. We're not talking about 20 or 30, if someone weighs 600 pounds, yeah, it's 20 or 30 years. If not more, you know, one
of the stuff arguing over vegan versus carnivore. And instead, look at how much they
weigh, oh my God, by a long shot. Let's put this in perspective with some characters who can make up in our heads, if a vegan or carnivore doesn't matter. Say, you know, there are 350 pounds of five foot seven and they're like, well I'm vegan. So it's not a big deal. You're going to be like
Bro, that ain't it. Now if you eat mostly healthy foods, lean proteins, veggies, fruits, whole grains healthy fats, and mostly unprocessed Foods. If you do that, whatever body weight, you're at it, absolutely matters for longevity, but it matters a little bit and that means you should do it. But the biggest thing that you get out of those Foods is the ability to do weight control. Because if you are grotesquely
You could be eating, fuck all it matters, but not by a ton
how much mitochondrial damage and stuff like that is coming from junk processed foods, or is your concern with avoiding ultra-processed foods? That just more palatable than eating the whole of food
version. It's probably another 80/20 or 90/10 situation where mostly, they're just a portal to being really fat. But yeah, there are some decent research that says very processed Meats, very processed, various other foods do have chemical effects cellular.
Levels that are absolutely not ideal. Especially if a preponderance of your diet is composed of those foods, but if you eat not so healthy foods, a few times a week and the rest is healthy. They cannot statistically differentiate you from someone who eats healthy 100% of the time in the mortality or morbidity
assuming that you maintain a similar sort of weight correct. Yep. So yes, exactly. But again, what fighting with ultra-processed foods are more palatable often more calorie dense go back and watch the fat loss episode that we did before you know it.
About that, that's it. So,
that's really important stuff. But I think the big takeaway for me is this, if you kind of two extremes one, we already mentioned, if you are following some Ultra healthy diet, either ostensibly healthier actually healthy and you have gotten up to 400 pounds and you're not losing weight currently, but you're like, I'm good, I'm eating the new way. It's great. You got a bad thing coming your way on the other hand.
if you happen to be in a position where you are,
All the healthy weight, you're physically, active, Etc. All the other variables will talk about are pretty well in line. And you are looking at a plate of nachos at a Mexican place with your friends and they're like, eat salmon. You're like, but to kind of going to kill me because they're made of chips on. Those are bad. Sorry crisps, does that make your
English feel that a sizing every?
Yes, yes, that's also probably the wrong move and it's a wrong move for at least two reasons.
S 1, if in moderation. And with all the other factors, aligned you eat a, some junk every now. And again, it's a very difficult story. To tell yourself that anything very much matters about, if you eat a few chips or zero chips, or even a two bags of chips every now, and again, the other way in which it matters is the in, this is a little bit more about how you approach food. If you approach food in an erotic fashion, anticipating dangers everywhere, trying to curate, your
Lifestyle to only get the organic vegan superfood shit and really worrying a lot about what goes into your body. You almost certainly will live less time than if you just didn't give a shit and ate mostly good shit. But every now and again, just had 10 burritos. Nope, no problem. I love the idea of the stress of trying to be perfect will kill you more quickly than your imperfections depending on the degree of imperfection. But if you're doing a decent job and you're worrying more than that, you're just going insane. I did a Jeffersonian breakfast.
I'm with Brian Johnson, a couple of months ago. Okay? What? I don't know what that means. So you everybody gets I think a minute to speak. You kind of go around in the sand. You've got a topic that you're talking on and it's a way of I guess fostering discussion some kind. Okay. And he was talking about some of the research that him or his team had done. I don't know where it come from and he said that eating at McDonald's kills you 12 minutes earlier.
That was some of the and I do wonder, you know, I like what Brian's doing in the same way as I like, having a scout in a army that goes and sort of climb to really do, but I'm not climbing that shit. I don't wanna go up there, but I'm glad he doesn't. Maybe, tell us some interesting stuff when it comes back down. Totally. However, I do Wonder this is one question. I haven't got to ask him yet, which is how are you or any of the people that are really obsessed with long ago on the r / longevity, read it or whatever other versions of that.
At the NAD, discussion forum, the Resveratrol discussion forum, all of the David Sinclair stuff from years ago. I wonder whether those communities have got to the stage yet where they tried to mediate the longevity induced stress reduction. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes.
Now there are a few ways you could go about this. If you are a person who is obsessed with longevity in a glass half full, sort of way, you're looking at the variables in your life and you're like,
Ooh, I'm gonna optimize for longevity. I love my life, I love science. I love being intricate and meticulous it just my nature. I love organizing all the variables and being very strict. You're not really stressed. When you're doing that you're actually
involved part of your orderliness.
Yeah. And so, not only do you get the benefits of being a perfectionist on never eating any junk. But also you get the benefits of being super involved, which is another big variable will discuss later as seems to have some promise for longevity, but if you're a person who
If they are told this and just eat mostly healthy foods and you're good to go and you're like, oh my God, thank God. But if I tell you look every fry you put in your mouth is like 30 seconds. Less life that you're telling your wife. Something just beautiful about how much you love her on your deathbed and you're like and my favorite part of you is and she's like that stupid fry from like a Donald's. Call my husband. So if you are a person whom that idea and the pursuit of
Of perfectionism tends to give higher stress levels. I'm going to tell you right now. It's probably not worth it. Just do a good job. Don't try to aim for perfect.
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A bike.com /, modern wisdom, using the code, modern wisdom, a check out that carolynwilton77 widen wisdom, and modern wisdom. A check out what happened to all of the research saying that, if you cut a rat's calories by 50% or 30% that it lives, tons longer, whatever happened to the intermittent fasting side of do. You haven't mentioned once calorie restriction for longevity extension. Why?
Because it's almost completely encompassed by the variable of body weight. I'm going to tell you something, completely insane, Chris you might not believe, but when you feed a rat, a little less food or a lot less food, it gets a little ER lot lighter in body weight and if you factor that variable of body weight, it already accounts for that. So it's absolutely true that if you input fewer calories on average in a certain margin, yes, starve, you can starve yourself to death and use like always been starving to death in your skeleton. But like 110, you're like, I'm
Bring it in, fellas. Can I get a brown either? No, no he would die. Like I kind of want to die with a brownie, in my mouth. So the body weight, basically, absorbs, all of that variance for us. So, let me
just knowing that we should all be fighting to be as low body weight, as possible if you want to live. There is an
optimal body weight, but it's not one number, I can give you because it depends on a bunch of stuff. Internal genetic variables, I can't possibly predict because I don't have an AI scan of your whole genome. It's coming. I'm sure, but it's not here yet. Another one is frame size, like someone who's six foot two
To your yeah. Like and very Broad shouldered in the inter acromial distance for the bones. You'll. Yeah. You got to be like 115 pounds and then you're going to be super, like, longevity, like a until they die of starvation. Summarily one day later. So, a lot of variables play into that, but as far as body weight is concerned, you're generally going to take the average recommendation of what most of the governing bodies and Medicine. Agree is the statistically healthiest to body weight and you're going to are either at that body weight or a
Little bit less, you start going much less than that, not so great. So, for example, if the insurance tables say that you're probably in your best health at 150 pounds, given your they don't usually do frame size. So already, this is fucking shit £150. You're good to go, anywhere between like 135 on 150. That's probably your super golden Zone. You can weigh up to 165, 170 180. If you're more muscular, and it'll be almost the same result, but if you get into like the 120s or the
Tens just to live longer, it might not work out. So well for you
is holding muscle mass from a diet perspective. What you just what's the role of muscle mass talk to me about how muscle mass plays? A role in longevity is
important muscle. Mass plays makes sort of two appearances in longevity. One appearance that muscle makes in longevity, is that having a decent amount of muscle has secondary health effects for your rest of your system.
Muscle is he glucose consumer and it keeps your blood glucose chronically lower than if you didn't have plenty of muscle and excessive chronic high blood glucose is a Surefire way to just croak fucking early, that's it. And so there are a few other ways in which muscle has these great systemic effects and those are awesome. That's actually the primary driver. The second thing about muscle is, when you look at the statistical literature on people with a certain level of muscle mass and their mortality predictions. You see these massive correlations correlation is not
Not causation, most of the variants of muscle mass or most of the relationship between muscle mass and mortality has to do with muscle mass isn't what's keeping you alive? It's just a really good indicator of your
overall health, that's like healthy, use a by a signal.
100%. So like if you give me an 88 year old woman who is walking on a cane or she should wear jackets, you destroy skyscrapers and shit. She's like, you ever seen someone who's not overweight but they like reach for their luggage and it's
Skin and Bones and like the muscles are like her biceps like the width of my finger and you're like the fuck is that person moving? And they're barely moving. She's going to croak probably in that so long a time. But it's because she's 88 and because all of the other health factors have precluded her from building muscle, not as much because if she built a ton of muscle it would keep her
lifelong. Had a good bench press right. Be
sweet. It's true. She had more muscle, probably be healthier for her but a lot of
Times people who are bedridden, people are suffering from chronic illness, people are suffering, chronic and physical inactivity, like your hips are totally fucked so you lose a ton of muscle in your legs. And then like people like you, when you die, they measure your muscle mass in a study and they say, well, it's low muscle mass. It's at the low muscle mass specifically the killed you. Although it did have a small effect. It's the fact that like oh shit you weren't really poor health. In order to get to
the muscle mass is Downstream from what you've
done hundred percent. And there's a couple things going around the internet. People are talking about jump height, your ability to jump high related to your mortality.
Leti and grip, strength. And like, if you try to train to jump higher or grip stronger thinking, it's going to keep you alive. Reverse causation, not the best, use of your time.
Yeah. What about too much muscle? Lots of people listening, who may be worried about that. They spend all that time in the gym. You as well, somewhat large guy who's competitively body belt but he built quite a while to. Yes. But he built so
Technically, as soon as you get to be considerably 10 or 15 pounds, heavier, than what the insurance, tables predict will be the body weight that lets you live the longest. You're probably not doing yourself any favors with longevity. However, this is one of those instances where quality of life and Longevity can be a little bit antagonist. It to one another.
So that definitely has to be stated that no you can't be as jacked as you want and still live as long as you want. But if you're not using anabolic steroids and growth hormones, to get that extra muscle, the amount of muscle a human can gain naturally. As long as they don't have a high degree of body. Fat is just not going to make a huge difference in longevity and stuff, a quality-of-life trade-off is worth it to you. It's going to be a very small effect less than 5 years and of Life maybe even less than that. If you use a ton of steroids,
To get this jacked. Then you're going to be doing some time
at. What do you, what are you talking about with? I don't know. Take yourself the sort of course you do much. I would guess is in the upper range of what most people even non professional bodybuilders would take what sort of Life price. Do you think people are
paying as far as my back of the envelope calculation for myself personally. So there's a big caveat so that I don't embarrass myself posthumously when this is released when
Die tomorrow or die in a hundred years time.
Mr. Cass Tech element about death. I can anyone you just die fucking tomorrow. They got blood vessel in his brain just blew up. Yeah, turns out his head was too big that kind of weird shit. Aside on average, I would have expected myself to probably take about 10 years off of the end of really. Yeah. Hello.
Yes, this is. What is it that the drugs are doing? That speeding up the dying process?
Yeah. What are they doing? This speeds up and they're growing your heart.
Muscle in a way that makes your heart worse at pumping blood. They are consistently, presenting you with cholesterol levels that do nothing. Good for your arteries. They are elevating your blood pressure and how many of those variables I have kiboshed. So I could be lucky and be looking at less than five years, but there's also an element of we're carrying that much excess, body weight. Starts to be a stand-in for the muscle. When you way I'm 56 and I currently weigh 235, uh, 135 pounds of 56.
You are I'm like one obesity category away from the highest
one all the time on BMI. Correct.
Yep. But like the amount of weight you carry around the amount more forcefully your heart has to pump blood Etc. That's still fucking counts fatiguing. 100% And so to quote Donald Trump and the heartbeat thing again is not 100% wrong, that definitely is a factor. So if you happen to have used lots of steroids, but you kept most of your
Both values and check and you just had dogshit genetics for being jacked and you never got really big. You're probably looking at less than five years off your life span on average. But I've been pretty big for my size for a long time and my parents are both teeny tiny people with very small frames. I also have a very small frame.
I just have a lot of muscle on it
relatively speaking and a lot of weight I have had for years and that's absolutely a big fucking problem.
Do you? I think about crispum said, when you talk about that, someone who's just retired,
At age, 30. Okay. 6263, I think he steps on stage at like, 220, 230, something like that. I'm not too
sure. Very mysterious with the classic guys actually way, but yeah, yeah, I'm 22 to 40 or
something. Yeah, I think about him, you know, trying to get in and get out, he's like, you know, Navy SEAL Team, Six, like kicking the door down shot. Someone in the face six times and then I'm like, you can't get me anymore. I don't have any more Olympia trophies. Yeah. All right, I wonder.
Wonder how much he's been able, obviously genetically Elite. I wonder how much he's been able to get in and get out so to
speak. The more you can get in and get out the better. I never used preposterously high doses mostly because I was like, I don't exactly want to die Lake tomorrow tomorrow, but also because for me, high doses were just not so great. Not my psychology and stuff. Yeah. But for someone like Chris Bumstead, I mean,
His degree of muscle mass and body weight, that it carries for his height and frame. We're never like insane. Do you know who big Rami was guess? Light is that's gonna put you in the grave. A lot sooner because you are
carrying you doing. There wasn't one. Isn't he? Like 340
offseason? Correct. He literally is 100 pounds more than sebum at probably a slightly shorter height, like that's the kind of thing that's going to affect you. So just to
review a little tail end hundred
percent. Yeah, so to review the muscularity
Part. If you are very under muscled, it's probably not a huge deal for longevity. But being at least normal musculature for the average person of Europe, sort of height and frame and age is probably your best. Bet at longevity having a little extra muscle can help can hurt, probably cancels out on average. So if you're jacked as an a/d, unless you got super fat to do it, like I did when I was natural, no big deal. Hey, yeah. And then as you use drugs, if you use drugs to get jacked, but you really good at controlling,
Your health variables. You never had excessive cholesterol. You never had chronic high blood sugar from mismanagement of insulin and growth hormone shit like that. If you did a good job managing that and you never got enormous enormous. Yeah, like the drugs definitely kill you faster but not psychotically faster. I mean there are dozens and dozens of Golden Era Pro bodybuilders that are still alive. Today, they're in their 70s and 80s Arnold still kicking it. Like if this shit was remember, one of my mentors dr. Mike Stone told us something about the steroids,
AIDS. When we were in Ph.D program. He's like, you know, we in the 80s knew that the media was lying because you just went into locker rooms and Jim's. It just didn't see any dead bodies because, you know, like 80s anti-drug. Hysteria was a totally different level. I want steroid injection, your criminal, you're in jail. You're addicted to heroin somehow also, and you're for sure, dad, like tomorrow that absolutely doesn't happen. However, last category is if you get very, very large, stay large for a long time, stamp tons of gear for a long time and don't attend to the various health.
Sequences, but that point, you're rolling the dice. And the only way in which the dice are loaded is with your genetics because there are Juiced up people that have been jacked for forever their beet red. And they just like, don't die and they live into their 80s. Not the great model for most people because they just have baller genetics. One of my friends and a mentor of mine brought her, a Chava's can't believe like a grandfather and Uncle who like, worked literally in the coal mines and he had like uh, some kind of chest congestion.
Addition, this is an amazing story. It was the 1960s and he like, went to the doctor and he's like, a something in my, like, some lungs are shit. And they're like, oh yeah, here Dianabol tablets, d-ball tabs oral steroids, right? Did you got a script for oral steroids and he was on them for like a generation straight? This is an oral drug. You're not supposed to take them longer than like six to eight weeks. He was just on it all the time. And I was like, all right so what was he like? He was like jacked and mean and he lived like well into his like late 60s or
70's and fucking coal mining, right? And abroad said once he's like, I think he just died because he was just like, God fuck this, he's don't want to be alive anymore. The thing is most of us do not have genetics like that. So really important to say like if you know someone that's lived a long time in spite of everything, do you want to take that chance on yourself? I wouldn't anything else. It's a must a must
Actually, that's question. There is something else. So if I want to take a non bodybuilder, but longevity approach for training for this. Yes, very rough hewn. Why do I need to do?
Yes, training, two to four times per week, for 30 to 45 minutes at a time, mostly compound movements, large muscle mass movements, underhand pull-downs and pull-ups Rose, close grip, bench press has dips overhead presses squats, deadlifts etcetera, stuff like that.
That obviously vanity shit you can do usually, with relatively short rest, breaks 4 sets of 10 to 30 repetitions per set, alternating muscles, that aren't involved in one movement with those that are involved in the other. So, do some close grip. Bench has take a quick 10, second breather, do some underhand pull-downs, quick 10-second breather and back and forth and back and forth, that should constrain your workouts to a small amount of time. Interestingly enough, if you're working out exclusively to get more life at the end of your life,
You're also consuming a lot of life, being in the gym around sweaty
nasty people, you have to come to great that in. Yes. But there is this hops.
The duration of you spending time at the gym lower but also because of the short, rest intervals on the high repetitions, it allows you to have some of the benefits of cardiovascular exercise that are sort of enhancing to both quality of life and how long you live. And so that's probably the best way to do it. It's very minimal effect on your schedule.
Oh and it has probably as much as you'll ever need to extend your lifespan or make it higher quality. If you're training in the gym like two hours a day, six days a week and you're like for longevity like it's not it's not bad for you necessarily but it's Overkill your
overshooting. Yeah, definitely sleep. What about sleep?
Sleep is a big deal. Sleep is the ultimate stress reducer and everyone's life. Like that's pretty much the one of the main purposes of sleep is to kind of reset the whole
System and sleep is a thing where again that 90/10 80/20 rule comes in handy. If you're mostly sleeping enough to feel well rested, which means if you need like, fuck new. Tonic. I need eight cans of monster to keep me awake after 2 p.m., you're not getting enough sleep, but if a can or two of metonic throughout the day is all you need to be your sharpest, then you're good to go and you're probably getting enough sleep, seven to nine hours.
For most people, as good of quality of sleep. As you can manage, keep the room dark, keep the room. Cool few distractions. No blue light, a few hours before bed. All the general sleep recommendations that are really awesome. If you just check list that and you usually get really good sleep, a night or two every few weeks. You stay up all night or you get, you know, really busy with work. You don't sleep you hours, no big deal. Generally that's the recommendation, chronic low amounts of
Sleep in a way that has you feeling. It is a big deal. Some people just don't need as much sleep as others. Jocko, is that true?
Supposedly. So, the 4:30 a.m. thing which I'm reliably told by some of my friends that are fathers that they beat on an almost nightly basis, easy, I've never asleep. They've got that shit to do. Yeah. Actually but yet I mean there's that genetic mutation that I think the same likelihood of you having that that requires you to only sleep, maybe four hours a night and feel. Okay. Is this?
The same likelihood is you being hit by lightning twice? Holy shit, it's like super super unlikely, so cute, very very rare. Anyway, Jocko is one of those people that I've heard. I think basically what most special forces select for our people that can deal with sleep depth
very well, very big deal because if you if you need lots of sleep consistently and you also degrade very heavily in your cognitive and physical function, you just won't make it through selection. Even if
Are straight-up killer. That's the kind of guy. You want to be like an elite bodyguard for someone, like the president who sleeps, normal hours, you have a decent rotation for your bodyguarding shifts. You can be like a Delta Force, Level shooter, you just look, if I don't get my sleep, I'm I'm good to know when after a few
days. Tim Kennedy, tell me the story, maybe you ask him about it tomorrow. If you'd chatting to him, ask him about the time, you ran out of ammo. And they'll know the story and I think he said he was awake for the only time he slapped his own. He was concussed by
An IED going off, holy in like 48, maybe more hours. It's like, for awake for two full days, runs out of it every different platform, every different magazine, every different piece of ammunition that he had. And you just realize that. Okay, that's that's what the job demands of you Ross. Edgley, who I think wanted an intro to you have a chat at some point. I asked him you know he's done all of these crazy swam. I did it Triathlon holding a tree triathlon.
He's the first person in history to have a swim around great but needed six hours on six hours off for basically seven months. He's just done the longest single distance River swim in history, 300 miles. Oh my God, 55 hours without touching land without sleeping without anything, 55 hours straight through. And I asked him what his super power is and it completely makes sense. All of those things together are him allowing to deal with sleep deprivation and to digest food in very strange.
JH situations. Yeah, so he
falls digestion. Will shut down and altruism.
So he's able to have piping hot porridge to keep him warm when he was in the Yukon swimming in Canada. Piping hot, porridge that like a internal hot water bottle heating him from the stomach out, but then get back to moving and being horizontal. If you feed me food, I need to be vertical for at least 45 minutes afterward. Just the way my digestive tract is put together. Sure. I don't like being horizontal, sure. So what I'm saying is certain people deal with
Digestion, sleep in very, very, very different ways.
So for those people that don't need as much sleep, don't feel like you have to get it, but if you're genuinely not well-rested chronically, you're doing some reduction of Life Span and, and life quality.
100%. What about regularity of sleep? I've heard that the regularity can impact longevity as much as the duration. Yeah.
That's probably a little bit of an exaggeration. Oh, maybe not by much, especially in extreme cases. It can be pretty.
Nasty shift workers. Firefighters nurses.
Correct. Sleeping. Roughly with the day-night cycle and getting to bed and waking up at roughly the same time on most days is probably a good idea for some people that like that, Brian Johnson robotic lifestyle every morning, you wake up the same time, every night, you go to bed at the same time, dope. But for most people, they're going to take a hit on social quality of life.
Ders and yeah, if you stay up at night or two a week, a little later and wake up a little later it's just not going to be a big deal, but regularity is a really, really good thing. It's a thing that should be built into your life anyway and violating every now. And again, it's okay always being in the mix of. God knows when I go to sleep and wake probably not ideal for longevity.
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I'm going back to the exercise portion where as we touched on muscle mass, like the bro side of exercising. But what, about more General activity outside of that? Yes, walking. Yes, stretching and cardio and all that stuff.
So stretching all reliable mechanism by which it'll let you live longer. But generally a moderate to high amount of physical activity has a good combination of promoting the
August lifespan and the longest healthspan. I think that's a computer at ebook title. I just said by accident that, you know the keeping the morbidity Lilo having the higher quality of life. Because so something like just for people's reference frame six to twelve thousand steps per day. For most people is totally cool. But a better way to put that as probably if you're doing a lot fewer than five or six thousand steps per day all the time and you don't get a lot of physical activity, otherwise
you could be living longer if you did more physical activity, in most
cases, just to touch on that. I think I'm good avatar for the gym, bro, who goes quite hard for an hour and then is sedentary for a lot of the day.
I'm doing some exercise. I'm doing probably significant 95th percentile intense exercise. I'm also not moving quite so much. What would you say? I imagine a lot of the audience fit into this particular
bracket. I think you're doing really well for yourself if you wanted a small but meaningful enhancer to quality of life and Longevity later down the road, you would break up your periods of physical inactivity. At least another one time in the day for a serious.
About of some kind of aerobic output, be it. Walking as easily as that all the way up to pretty difficult aerobic activity. And so if you lift weights and you do all that and if you get, you know, roughly 10,000 dish steps a day, very roughly huge variation for individuals. You're pretty good to go. But there's probably almost certainly a morbidity reduction way of doing it. And probably increase your lifespan by a little bit. If you have several sessions a week,
Two to four sessions of 30, to 60 Minutes of intense cardiovascular activity. And for most people a really easy way to measure that is, can you have a conversation with someone while you exercise? I don't mean a few words here and there like I'm doing good. See you tomorrow. Not that I'm talking about like consistent conversation with you and I are having now you and I can have this conversation on a walk and no problem. If we were in really good shape, we could have a not a jog but we're not pushing the
Pace with aerobic exercise if we can talk so if you can't talk and you're huffing and puffing doing that at least twice a week for 30 minutes on end and all the way up to four times a week for 60 Minutes on end or any combination. There in is probably that extra cherry on top for longevity and quality of life enhancements. So if you really want to live as long as possible, I would say some pretty intense regular aerobic activity is probably a good thing and it's unlikely to be a bad thing.
Is that something that you're thinking about? Now that you're out of, I just want to be as big and lean as possible world are you are you see your Brazilian jiu-jitsu as is that contributing in that sort of manner,
my Brazilian jiu-jitsu definitely counts as that. And I do BJ. Now roughly five times a week and at least a few of those sessions have me huffing and puffing so I'm probably taking good care of that. I am absolutely not the model for longevity and quality.
Leti of life on a very perverse, very strange path. Very understood, very chosen path.
I think you've at least partly ejected yourself out of that or sort of gently come in to land. Yeah, I saw some
abuse level steroid
but yeah, just makes me think. Again, I have this idea called the manual pause guys at some point between 28 and 45 that have just wanted to get his jacket and lean as possible. Maybe they have an abuse biddies. Maybe they have a, I haven't ever tried to do different.
Training. Modalities realize that they're become chronically aware of their own mortality and they think, hey, I shouldn't be out of breath. Going up those stairs or whatever. I don't touch my toes or my shoulder hurts always yes.
Just again, thinking about people pivoting out if that, and it seems to me that if cardio which for some people is fun apparently. But for other people, you need to game it, like you have, which is choke the guy. Oh, my heart rates. I was trying to choke the guy. My heart record high for me, pickleball is a good example, chasing a ball around a thing,
very British, very British way of of engage like
BB. Yeah, maybe not bools. Spools are Polo. But you're just trying to think about some of the easiest way.
Ways for the non cardio lovers to get themselves to that place
for sure. That's a great. Great question. Chris a great statement because we know from the exercise participation literature in the physical activity, participation literature, I actually used to teach a class dedicated pretty much to this
putt that is encouraging supplies. Anticipate Behavior, right?
Okay, Health behaviors. A trip. Like, we know pretty well what to tell people to do but then they're like and you're like, okay,
Okay, you think won't do it? How do we get them to do it? A big part of that is to factor thing. One is your physical activity, should be pretty fun and it should also hopefully be something that involves you with other people. So that the community reinforcement park is in play and that you have the situation where if you just don't feel like it someday your Airsoft team is still meeting up to shoot. Are soft palate each other? You
Better be there. And so you just end up falling in and if you fall out of activity, that nobody gives a shit because you're just on a treadmill at home and you have no friends and no one to talk to your maybe kind of done, but if people are like, dude, you're gonna make it to Jujitsu again, I heard you healed up. You like goddamn I do, I should go back. I'd loved you, too. I'm going to
fucking social pressure usefulness. That was the thing that I realized when I started doing CrossFit and any fighting that, you know, your most training, the most people unless you have a really cool gym
Training, buddy. Yeah, is you steeping in your own neuroses as you stare in the mirror, listening to metal or dark thoughts, if it's you and nothing. Yeah. And I realized this is awesome. A my Outsourcing all of my exercise motivation to this group of sure. Around me it sure. Lightens the burden of me having to do this thing that I kind of probably didn't want to do.
Yes, and I don't want people to misinterpret that as being like you got to bully your friends into exercise.
Say that I was
good and I considered playing American
football. I played Cricket for a long time. Excellent that's it. I
don't want people to misconstrue this as us saying, you need to bully your friends into exercise. There's a latent assumed expectation that people have that. You're going to come back to aerobics class that you're going to come back to the pickleball situation Jiu-Jitsu, whatever it is, and that internally to people without anyone ever saying anything, you have this thought of, like, we'll all the guys are at June.
Jutsu. I'm gonna go social pressures, a hell of a drug. It's a big deal and also what to the earlier Point. Like it should be something that you ideally look forward to and then it's fun. You don't want physical activity and nutrition everything in longevity. Pursuit to start feeling like medicine to start feeling, you just swallow the horse tablet and then you're good to go people. Generally don't tend to stick to that sort of thing, and the discomfort of it, the less enjoyment that you have less involved.
You have already actually excess off another longevity variable will discuss later, which is like life involvement. So if you like what you're doing, you're doing it with friends and it's healthy for you, fuck, man. You got a real good thing going.
Yeah, I suppose there's a few times where I more nuclear option is required. If you have Ethan, simply that, you got to meet the other day and you have 530 pounds and you're going to get down to 250 or something, you got to do the thing. Ya eat, the whole tablet all day. But yeah, for most people there are easier ways to kind of increase compliance. I love that. I didn't even.
You know, that exercise Behavior was at yes, health behavior, health, General, health behavior, I didn't even know, but it makes complete sense. What we spoke about last time on the last episode, which I really loved was my favorite of the ones that we've done so far about Stress Management recovery. What is the role of stress in all its forms on longevity life span morbidity? Yeah, stress has, what has been described as a pretty accurately is a hermetic response.
Association to little is not great too much, definitely not great. So if you never have challenging times in your life times, were the best of you as required times, when you have to focus times in which you struggle, both mentally and physically. You're unlikely to have as high of a quality of life and by a little bit, as high of a duration of life, as if you have times of life, that require you to get tired.
And beat up and stressed and overwhelmed. However, because there's a lot of really cool shit that happens when your body is overwhelmed and a lot of the crap, it secretes, when it's overwhelmed or actually like molecules, they're studying now that have like longevity enhancing effects, however, if you're so stressed all the time or much of the time that you're like lips just above water, kind of stressed, you know, like the gasping for air and a pool that's almost your height.
Then that is overwhelming your body systems and chronic high. Psychological stress will put you into the grave early almost every single time. There's another consideration here of how you perceive stress because you can look at some successful businesspeople athletes, whoever, whatever around there in mother's five children to raise. If it looks like they're in high stress, and to the outside,
Server, but they're engaged and loving every minute of it. They don't really pay the cost longevity-wise, and it's actually a bit of an enhancer, but if you no matter your stress level feel, totally overwhelmed. And like, when will this end type of situation? And you hate it, just get me out, you know, like, you see, a celebrity getting asked for the 50th time, with your new movie? Are you excited about it? And they got these cost over eyes. It's not just the heroin that time, this place them over that kind of constant overwhelming.
Elm. That's not really great for longevity or quality of life. So what you want to do is sufficiently challenge yourself in life and also get the recovery that balances tough. I myself have had a real hard time striking that balance in my life. I blame my wife for this entirely accusation. Oh yeah, well we'll get to that in a second. I'll get so I blame her just for many things in my life. Most really even stuff that like happened to me when I was a child, she wasn't even around. Because why not at this point?
But she is a person who is her, industriousness is like off the charts and she needs to, in many cases, be doing something or else she goes insane. The problem is, I'm also like that. So when we're together, we just work a lot, and we get guilt trips in our own heads about not working enough. And so, we're really, really bad about taking time off and time to rest. Nowadays were a little better at it because
Because per the recovery podcast we did it's a priority for us as professional work athletes like athletes rest. The funny that I can say this in a space where millions of people will see it. My wife sent me so uh sorry are the joke is super old are adopted son Jared. Feather ifbb Pro. He is like on exactly that level of Crystal and eyes psychosis about work but probably worse.
Which he considers a great honor and it is but also it comes to the trade-off. He's a very amazing Pro classic physique competitor. And you've seen Jarrod real life like you can see Jared you're like why do we even train their people that list exists? I don't even no longer the gym, but sebum, who's in the same division, but his 16 Olympia's and jarrod's place, like top five times six and some shows but has never cracked that. I think he will in the future but it was your podcast, you had sebum on that. My wife sent me that clip just like
Yesterday and she was like, this is funny and the clip was, what does sebum do in the average day and he was like, I wake up, I do some cardio, I go back to sleep after breakfast, I wake up, I chill I eat again, I take some pre-work, I train I come back I eat I might take another nap. I chill do family stuff, eat chill do family stuff eat. Go to sleep and it was like a crystal was a helliwell and I was like a LOL. I sent it to Jerry because and he responded with
LOL, like because we Guilt Trip Jared for wanting to be as good of a bodybuilder as he can be, but Jared does all our RP social media bullshit, all the help with like app stuff and software. In addition to that has a full roster of coaching clients for whom he travels all the time Across America and the world to help compete. And so like, I recently, he had take a little time away from training to recover and he was like, I don't know what to do with myself and I was like what do you do for fun? He's like, work, typically or plan.
To work, unlike anything else. He's a guy I've got nothing and so it's like Jared if you don't pull back on all the work, how were you going to be stepping onto the Olympia stage, you don't have the recovery time line in your plan to do so. And so, for all of us folks that are super grind, kind of thing and none of us are, like, man, Brian said, mentality would never say that because we're just like, is that just what everyone does, isn't that normal for those of us in that position, pulling back as a good idea. But if you're sitting on the couch, if you're bored, if you on your feet,
Doobie and of kind of life for you all the time and never challenged, never stressed. You will live longer. If you stress yourself, especially with things that you're passionate about involved in and can progress at that. Kind of stress in combination with an equal amount of rest. And Recovery is, the Jawad Aviv as the French are inclined to say I don't even know if that's
a term middle of the bell curve
stuff. Yes we just tough because so many of us that are prominent for whatever the fuck your case, massive success and intellect and my case my
His head shape, you know we just kind of work a lot and were like this is great and here's the thing if you love it and you're not overwhelmed all the time,
pretty good. If you a compost to do it,
if your compulsive to do it and you feel both overwhelm and the sneaking suspicion that you're a little bitch and you just need to go harder, you not going to live as long as other
states. So funny. So I had to call this morning, I had my first full genomic tests done, everything I can I can show you it at some point unless you close the
door out of the
That now, yeah, exactly turns out, it is genetic who Nia that we went through. And you talk about Snips, different Snips. We've got this nip, we've got this in the bag, Etc. And this is correlated with dot dot dot. This allows you to methylate better. This allows your
sections of DNA. Can I tell ya?
Let's see 6770 and blah, blah blah, and then next to it. There's a percentage number how rare it is all cool and presumably this is across population data or whatever. They've got to compare it to, there's a lot of data now.
Dude.
I was sat listening to my doctor go through this stuff this morning and it was okay. So you've got two copies of this Gene. 6% of the population, you've got two copies of this Gene 4%. You've got one copy of this Gene 18%, two copies of this, every single one of them, dopamine Drive, ruminative, thoughts, epinephrine norepinephrine. Don't clear adrenaline while like, all of the things that will just make you very compulsive, very motivated, very industrious and
It's the first time that I've ever looked at the genetic side of behavioral genetics. So you think my parents have these traits. We know that heritability is a thing. Therefore you will have these traits to but at no point. Did I ever actually think, okay. And what is the mechanism by which this is passed down while it's the genes, it's the actual genes. And given the fact that we've now got genomics to the point where we can start to see a little bit of the code in The Matrix, or Matrix in the code, we can actually look at it. So I was like, really
Reading the language of me, the building block crazy, right? And I was made. Dude, it was so fucking
interesting that done.
I can send you the link, it was like, not that expensive. It happened in a week, you just swab the inside of your cheek from your home, send it off. And I was like, this is but also the other thing that I realized, I was like, yep. See that? Yep, see that. And we're, what's really funny is where you go. You've got two copies of this time like a pin Mom and Dad. New York. Got one copy of this and you can determine which parent holy share because you go add. Yeah that's that's
Dad. That's not Mom or whatever. The other way, I brought I was blown away, I just can't stop thinking about it all day today. So yes,
you get to the genes that predict what you're going to be. Like when you're older,
they'll be in there or at least they will have captured them. But yeah, you can
say, reading that genome. You'll see some really crazy
shit while. Yeah, it was cool. So stress don't have overwhelming periods,
have overwhelming periods, but make sure that periods, not years at a time or decades at a time, or like always
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Wisdom. That's function. Health.com / modern wisdom. You mentioned about engagement some sort of passionate engagement thing. Thing you like to do this, what's that?
Let me say something. Super, super quick about the stress thing, you can have days and even weeks of extreme stress and it probably won't reduce your lifespan as long as you can comment. Only afterwards take days or even weeks of much lower stress until you feel like yeah, I could
be I'm ready. I get like a stretch.
Yes.
Whereas like, you know, day 3 of a vacation, after a really crazy period of work, you're not even relaxed yet. Something that folks might want to know is that seemingly and this is just based on my inference, as you get older, the amount of time, it takes you to unplug during a vacation or as you say in the, the kingdom holiday toss holidays, like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Etc.
It goes up, that amount tends to go up
and takes a longer time to slow down plug, right. Yeah.
And so I remember, I had met a gentleman is very nice man who was a doorman in New York. When I was on vacation, with my parents, I was like, my early 20s went to the Dominican Republic. And we were there for like, 10 days which we thought was a really long time. He was on vacation for three weeks and it all inclusive in the Dr. And I was like, dude, are you serious? He's like, when you get older, as you get older, it takes you longer to unplug.
Except the first week, I'm unplugging the second. And third week, I'm relaxing and I was like, that's weird. And
then one week, warm up to my holiday,
dude, seriously, because like, it's just not true to say that you're relaxed immediately after any stressful activity, we could take some time, like, imagine someone finishing up 15 RM on the squat. And as soon as they racket, you're like, all right, good to go. Let's get in the car and drive off and hold on. A second that my sweat has even started. Coming out of me yet. Like there's a
Yes, and so if you're as you're getting older, it's important to note that what used to be enough duration at a time of relaxation for you may not be and that it's good to take a little bit more time to be a little bit extra recovered, the best way to know if it's time to start grinding again. You start getting itchy for the shit again. Not compulsively like you want it again you want some stress. You feel like a lazy asshole and you're Way Beyond relaxed. If you haven't even gotten relaxed yet, you need more
vacation. Well, this is why it's so important to work.
Whether you're a like a type, a person with the type B, problem, or a type B person with the tape a problem. Sure. The again, the patient's determines the dose of what is required in Psych. Yeah, I've been thinking about this all the time, the just work harder, bro. Advice thing, it's been in my head pretty much since our last podcast white-knuckling, creativity and how you can't do that. The fact that you don't just get to switch on or switch off the industriousness like Drive. Yeah.
Motivation. It's a super interesting. I think it's a really important thing. I also do you really want to look back and just see the all you did was work, like an absolute motherfucker, the whole time.
It would be the honor of my life to die at my job. Yes. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Yeah. Some people they look back. You're totally right. I'll facetiousness aside for me, it would be an honor to die at work and having been known as a very hard worker. But for most people, they're like, man, there's all this life to live. I remember I was in an
Which class in college. Sorry in uni and I there was like a short story, we read about a guy who was like always super smart and got super Straight A's and he like had an opportunity to go, it was in the late 60s, he an opportunity to get on a bus and go to like, Washington, d.c. to protest something. But he didn't because he had exams coming up and he gave like a speech to a college graduating class when he was like 60 or something super successful career. And he was like,
Do you know Mike, my one regret was a didn't get on that bus and the only thing I thought at the time was like, yeah, but you got these millions from being a career man, didn't you motherfucker? And you did that pass in some exams, didn't you? So but for whatever it is, as far as how you want to live your life, which transitions into that Max topic of enjoyment. Yep, make sure you're taking breaks. Don't be stingy with the brakes but if it's all breaks, all the time, put yourself through some difficult shit, it's gonna help
you. Okay? Passionate
A judgment action engagement.
I'm not an expert in this subfield of longevity by a long shot, so you can probably have someone on the podcast at some point which I would consider fascinating. I would at least watch the episode, you get one View From Me. Hey, I do run a robot Farm in China. That will give you 100 million more views. You have to pay for that sort of thing. Yes. So at least we have this
Robust, correlational data, that shows that people who are passionately engaged in one or multiple sequential or overlapping lifetime. Pursuits seem to outlive most other people.
We know it's correlated.
I'm aware of no causative mechanism through, which this occurs, it's strains, my brain to imagine one and two, maybe the causation data is already around. I just not up to date on the stuff. So please ask chat GPT about this ask chat gbt or Claude or whoever about is their mechanistic presupposition or good evidence of how passionately engaging with anything. In your life, can increase your longevity and quality.
E of Life there that data may exist. But at the very least, we know the correlations are pretty fucking are tight and there's just so many people that have lived much longer than you would expect because they were passionately engaged in so many examples of people that were like, ah, and they don't live a long time. So, at least as a
Check the box just in case sort of thing. Yep, it's probably worthwhile to have in your mind if you want to live the longest not to have this perspective. And this goes back a little bit to the stress discussion of. Like, if I don't make it really far, I got a chill all the time and never involve myself to passionately anything, because passion gets the heart rate going and that's bad. On the other hand, you want to consider it as a balance but also it's at least worth a shot to get into
To that passionately engaging with something. What do I mean by that? Let's say you are just huge on World of Warcraft, think about it day and night, you play it all the time, you have friends that play it game evolves all the time, even something like that is statistically as a correlation likely to keep you alive for longer than if you have nothing about your life. That really gets you going in the morning. Nothing your building. Another thing is creating something but people who create it,
Venters statistically outlive like almost everyone. It's really kind of strange composers out live almost everyone because it they have a mission and it keeps them seemingly. So engaged that it may have some
benefits for longevity Damon some ice.
Some in maybe this is a maybe but here's the thing on the longevity side. So maybe on the quality of life side, it's 100% certainty which is why it also categorically belongs in this discussion is even though the longevity stuff
The lifespan is correlated, maybe it's causative. The causation element of quality of life is 100% of thing. Your quality of life is measured in a bunch of different ways but one of them is like do you are you really involved in what you're doing? Do you really like what you're doing? Like imagine you had to describe, you know, you meet someone on a plane sitting next to them and someone's like what do you do? And you're like aw, like I do podcast stuff and they're like do you love it? And you're like, that's all right.
It's a living like, you were clearly being facetious because if I'm a guest Chris, this is a deep involvement for you. Having conversations with mostly intelligent people, occasionally sprinkling me in this is a thing. You do in a thing, you really give a shit about that is probably going to be good for your quality of life simply because it's even just a sub definition of the quality of your life, you're in 100% on something, for hours a day, it's a really huge benefit in the
Mystical literature that we see and so at least worth a mention on two grounds of Might causative Lee enhance your lifespan but almost certainly will make your quality of life much higher.
Is this the effect where we see people who retire from that job at a particular age and then the seems to be the sort of drop off towards death. People are retiring earlier people retire later. Part
of that the other part as a big proponent of science, physically big not smart, just big
I want to see that there's almost certainly a big feature of that Dynamic. It's a true dynamic is reverse causation or a causation of an underlying variable if you just don't have it anymore at work because you're fucking dying, you quit work and then you die in the stuff. But but there may very well be this situation where even if you still got it if you quit, work your life drains of meaning and then yeah
probably not.
OT factorial, as well. Providing you with Community, providing you with structure every single day. You may be moving, maybe you're on your feet with some sort of job. You're getting a steps in it too. But like it's, you know, do all of these things work will set you free. I shouldn't say
that to yuge, you know, I quoted my dad once on the internet who said work will set you free and I had a friend reach out and be like you do know that was like a sign above Lego schwitzer, Burke an hour or something and I was like it's still right though and like you know my dad is as Ashkenazi as it gets. So tell him.
That shit. Hi, right. Okay, other people. I've heard that holds the people like them. Chris. I'm
sorry. Smell. They look at me funny. I think they look funny. What else is there to say?
That's true but apparently I need them to live longer.
Yes. Through vampiric consumption of their body fluids. Ideally you get them in infancy but infants are so hard to find nowadays.
The thread decline will do that to you.
That's correct. That's the real tragedy of birth rate decline. No more adrenochrome suck. The spinal fluid out.
Do what is Hollywood even doing to stay young and healthy? If very very similar statistical picture here as to the involvement stuff, passion involvement was something you like is seen in this situation with community and social relations family, Friends, Community involvement,
Are very tightly correlated with your longevity and because most people like a certain amount of them, they are in that sub definition of quality of life. So we could just say that is really great.
It's a big deal. And in many cases,
People will get all of the socialization they want and no more like I'm in Austin right now doing a bunch of podcasts if you text me to hang out and I'm interested in hanging out, I'll be like where when, if I'm not interested, I'll make up some bullshit excuse like, hey I'm super busy catching up on something anyway. So yeah, I'm good to manage my own ship.
So that's totally cool. Most people are doing a fine job of that. However, there are many people that have two things going for them one is they're not extroverted in a way that outreaches to get other people to hang out with them and to, they simply are not aware of, at least the correlation relationship between that and quality of life among gravity. And so some people are totally fine being hermits, but simpler. So people are also totally fine being hermits, but when they actually engage,
Social interaction, what's foisted upon them? They have like a breath of fresh air, go through them. And those people specifically need to be keen on making sure that they do at least the bare minimum to continue to involve themselves with other people. Now, typically in many cases it's just not a problem. Middle School, too, many fun and people high school. Same people College uni. A lot of people, you can be ostracized in those situations. You can be a loner, but a lot of times that's either by choice or by you just don't like those people.
As you get older, many people report that their ability to form new friendships or sustain older ones. It falls off this, some kind of like Doom and Gloom scenario or like, you know that everyone leaves you and dyes, that can happen. But there are many, many, many ways in which you can get yourself involved. There are community centers. There are various games and sports and involvements and everything. At any age, it's possible for you to reach out connect with people and regularly schedule a Hangouts, be with family and friends.
Be with other people being in a volunteering capacity. You don't have to have like deep close ties, even if you just interact with other humans, like at a soup kitchen for the love of God, several times a week, that seems to just be better than, just completely Walling herself off. If you're a kind of person that's inclined for some sociality. So, make the effort as what I'm saying?
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Modern wisdom, what you make of dr. Robert welding as stuff, the Harvard longitudinal, life study. There's a he came on the show and he had found that the single biggest variable in, how long people lived was the number of close connections that they have. It was more than smoking. It was more than going to the gym the single biggest determinant.
Why would you posit that? That might be.
I wonder if that factors out age. I haven't seen the actual data if it doesn't factor out age. It's probably partially correct as causative mechanism but probably only partially because when you're 88 most of your friends are dead and you outlived all of them and the reason you die soon isn't because they died. It's partially that. But also mostly schedule a. Yeah, it's just clocks tickin. So like I said, the court
Relational stuff is a big deal. There are other ways in which it might not be causation driven. If you are a crime uh Jenny piece of shit, and you're bad to yourself and your own head and you're bad to other people. You just won't have a lot of people around you. If you are very isolated, you're not economically, very productive, you're not very involved in things. Most of those things. Give you more friends, having more money, having more social connections, having hobbies and common with people, they
All independently, likely correlate or drive longevity. Because like when you have more money you can just before better Healthcare in many cases. And also, if you have a lot of money, you probably high and trait conscientiousness. And so you probably care about your health and also eat well and exercise and all that shit. Those people just tend to have more social connections than otherwise but there's there may very well be
An independent causative part of community. I'll say another thing.
One of the hypotheses that I like not saying it's true, I just it feels like a nice thing that makes sense to me is that a certain given level of social interaction is something that the human individual organism has been primed to see as a base level because if you look at our ancestral history like loan humans just die real soon. I'm a fucking Lone Wolf bro.
All right. Here's a spear. Oh, just kidding. You're the females of the tribe actually. Picked the plant that wraps the head of the spear. You don't have a spare, any more of a fucking stick. And there's a buffalo, this is one of you and that thing weighs 1,600 pounds and it's interested in getting upset at you. If you try to kill it, you're not doing shit by yourself. In all of our ancestral history, the loaner shit is just like, I love that fucking lone. Samurai bullshit, like Vibes wise, it's awesome. Like, I hate when psychotic left. It's really, you know, never does anything by themselves, like, shut up.
Just want socialism, get out of my face, but in the real world. Yeah, just drawing your own samurai sword. By yourself. That's just not how it works. And so humans are pre-built primed for living in groups and you're just unlikely to as a human, have an evolutionary history behind you which makes the act of being alone for a long time. Been officially normal like fuck beneficial. Totally right. But it's just so abnormal that if you expose humans too.
One closet? No sound. No light. A little bit of food and water, just keep going in a hole in the floor to poop and pee. They're also going to die real soon because people need all those variables just because they're normal and so, social interaction are pretty high level is number. All of us evolved in very communal circumstances where you walk outside of your Hut, which might have your wife and your three children in it. But the rest of the village is always every night. Every day together, everything's together. We're seeing in.
Recently more a society's, get wealthier and older, and atomization of individuals, like the average Japanese 60 year old has nobody, but here's the thing. How the hell are they alive? They don't need to kill bison with Spears anymore. They have supermarkets, they have food delivery, they have online work so you can generate value at home. Consume media at home. Just never need to leave now. Watching television shows and listening to music, almost certainly will increase your longevity and quality of life if you just have no choice of anything else, but being around
Real people, I don't think we have to suspect that is some kind of magic. Fairy dust effect were linked to the socialization. That's good for you, it's the fact that when you don't have lots of socialization, it's such an unusual thing to your human systems. Your brain that you're like, this low-key subconsciously, something is off. And then your ability to generate passion. To have
listened outside of us
is largely gone because you just weren't built for the
shit. Yeah. Passionate engagement will go up. Maybe you've got people around you. So if you get too fat, they're going to say, hey Mike, you get a little
Fat total you on waking up at the right time so they put it, it's sort of Correction mechanism for a lot of other
shit. Having grandchildren and children around for whom you maybe take care of, maybe you imbue them with wisdom. That's a lot of meaning. In a lot of purpose, you're living for more than just
yourself to parents live longer. You know,
I have no idea almost certainly they do, but I wouldn't, I don't have the data in front of me to say
that, okay? That's the things that do impact longevity.
What are the biggest myths in the world of longevity? In your opinion
again? As in all of our myths discussions is has to be highly curtailed for the purposes of time. There are a few things that come to mind and maybe you can remind me of a few one. Is that in 2024, October am I allowed to say, when this was filmed Chuck? Yeah, fuck.
We don't have any supplements that you can take that are like strong main effect for enhancing longevity and have been approved or that main effect has been Illustrated. If wide variety of studies done by different Laboratories around the world and we have a deep understanding of a causal mechanism behind that. I take n MN nicotinamide mononucleotide and I was my clip appeared and some other longevity podcast where I went on.
The longevity rant on one of my other videos and this longevity expert, dude who seem like sharp guy know what he's talking about. He kind of clown me on the nmn thing. So I took another look through the literature and turns out actually, there is some very decent data for nmn having some longevity effects and actual mechanistic effects as well. But the total number of studies on the breadth of populations. It's been studying on is just not enough for me to go singing its Praises all the fucking time which is why I mentioned it now twice, ever in public.
Pulled up for both times.
Yes,
And and so it's just something I take as a hedging mechanism of like native language something. I just swallow it, right? But I swallow a lot of other things most in any case I won't get in
there, so shut up again.
So if there were these pills, I could take that reliably increased longevity
I would love that. I would love if there are supplements, like that there is Resveratrol. There's a few other candidates, but none of them have that, like duty, is this really worth my money for sure? Like, if someone's eating only 80 grams of protein per day and they're like, I can't eat anymore, real food. Should I take supplements? You're like yes like will it help with muscle mass? Yes. Like how many studies hundreds on, everyone? There's nothing like that for longevity supplements. So in 2024, if someone's selling you longevity supplements they could be
Out of something and there could be some valuable stuff, people have in the formulations of actually works but nothing that we can be ultra super sure about and really quick, no small number of shady fucking supplement. Companies will tell you, you gotta take this, it's going to make you live longer and to every single one of them are, if their claims are extreme, they're bullshitting you. What about metformin met form? Is not a supplement. It's a drug. You have to have a prescription for. However, metformin is a life extension drug. Here's the thing.
So very small effect. The only way we really know metformin extends lifespan is because so many people take it for diabetic outcomes that from that mechanism alone, we have just like ungodly numbers of the N size is huge. So with a huge sample size on a study you can Zone into real tiny effects and see them. So if you take Metformin versus not, you're going to probably live a little longer with metformin, the not. But if that this thing that's going to take like 5 or 10 years and slap it onto your life. That's what I'm really excited about for the future.
Future of medicine. What I'm here to say is in is in mid-to-late 2024. It's just not here yet, and Metformin is not something. You just should go out and take should be a conversation with your health provider, not everyone reacts very well to metformin. And again, the longevity benefits are quite small. There's other tons of side effects. You can have with it. There's some really good main effects on the people are on it for diabetic control, but it's not some kind of anti-aging wonder drug. I will say there's literature coming up a little bit. Now that some of the mechanistic effects that you see with metformin, or
And higher with some Uggla tide and a lot of the new anorexic drugs, the fat loss drugs. So when people say like, well I'm going to take this drug but when I get off that one, are we gain the weight and yeah, probably. And they're like, well, so I just got to be on it forever like uh-huh. And there, but isn't that bad for me like no, it actually might be better for you to be on these drugs. The not on these drugs in like seven out of
ten times. I wrecked mechanism from the some Igloo tide or is it that it's stopping you from your weed addiction and your food addiction, and your fucking porn
addiction. Blow, at leaders at least one mechanism offhand. I can I talk about it. Lowers your blood
Blood sugar, your chronic area under the curve of blood sugar substantially and that itself has like five different ways in which it doesn't toxify your organs over time. There's definitely a thing. So there are some things like metformin semi-retired that are in the conversation. For like, oh, neat. They have little little longevity boosting effect but there's just unfortunately, no drug or supplement currently yet made. That's like this is the thing you need to take for longevity and here's the thing, like there are people that are there is a anti-capitalist, anti-feminist industry.
Auntie supplement industry that will say the same things as I'm saying, it'll be true. I'm the opposite of all those things insanely supplement up to capitalist supplement, Optimist, Etc. I just happen to think. Like I don't, first of all, I want to lie to people, I also don't sell supplements. I would make any money off that now. If I have to lie to people to make money, holy shit, welcome, but it is just one of the things. I really wish it was true but it's just not true yet yet. It doesn't mean we're not several years away from massive, massive.
Changes in how drugs and other things can affect longevity.
One of the other most common Pathways intimate and fasting. We spoke about calorie restriction earlier on. Yeah. But intimate fasting is a very specific type of that with
What's that thing that it does is offer. G am G David
autophagy. There's another way to say that. That's slightly, a slur sound
ha ha, ha ha ha. Which we both are? Yes. So, wake up in the morning in the switch has been
flicked. Always mice, which broke off through violent homosexual intercourse. Ah, it was great
time, kind of world record and grinder. Yes,
Fasting is awesome for a bunch of different reasons. Sometimes it fits people's lives better, sometimes let them control hunger better. If you get enough protein, it's probably not going to lead you to become emaciated or whatever. It's not the optimal way to get jacked, but it's not that far off. However, fasting had this thing a few years back where people are like this is the thing for longevity, but it turned out that comparing models of fasting versus not fasting. If you keep the caloric restriction as the variable that's at play there.
Is no way to statistically differentiate fasting versus not fasting meno. Hence, almonds has some really good Insight on this from a compilation of studies. And so it's not really the fasting. That's probably keeping you alive longer. It's the fact that you're eating less food overall and the fact that you are now at a lower body weight, lifetime overall.
So is that no truth to all tough 4G, autophagy happens all the
time. Autophagy itself can occur in the presence of food or not the presence of food, and if your caloric input
Out the day is the same. The amount of recycling of your own nutrients that has to occur is also the same. So autophagy is a thing that you can see very big spikes of and very big declivity is of if you fast and then feet, but if you just eat regularly throughout the day, you get these little spikes in the
area under the curves exams
are being like, very at least very similar, right? And so if you want a fast, if you suspect that your reading of literature shows it actually has slight, longevity benefits. I'm a
Absolutely not going to stop anyway. I think maybe that's the case. Just at a just a cold reading of the literature. I'm not inclined to believe a fast as the Holy Grail. Yeah, it's a right. Like because some people like they're on the longevity kick, they're like so you fast, right? You're like, oh, they're like well you're just a fucking idiot? Like nah, that ain't it?
What about blue zones?
I don't like the color blue. I like red zones you wearing blue. Well, I hate
shirts. Awful pbrs, terrible.
Is this blue to you? I don't know what it is, to Me. Maybe I'm
colorful is sort of blue, blue green. Teal teal. I love teal.
I left heel than it. Why are variously her
staff members laughing at
that regularly? When we do these shoots? What it looks like to you the untrained unwashed masses is just that there's light coming up from places, right? There's light and everybody doesn't know, this is a fake sun outside as fake light underneath all of this. It's not even actual photons. So City Lake like to, thank ya and you can make these tubes any color that you want.
I like them to be teal.
He said that were not allowed them, so I'm being abused who
know about video things say it, he'll
socks. Yeah, they do. But you're here in your shirt, yes? Sorry. Blue zones, blue zones. Also, the fans are kind of bluish. Yeah. All of these Japanese people keep on living
forever. Yeah, y-yeah so people in the blue zones do a lot of things, right? They tend to not overeat extent of being grotesquely over fat, they tend to have a high degree of community, involvement,
Ten personal involvement but and that's stuff we can take away from them. What we categorically cannot take away from them is the ultra specifics of their diets because here's how it works. In fantasy internet land you pick a Blue Zone culture whose diet you seem to like and you go into the olive oil with the Italians or it's the fish and rice with the Japanese or whatever the hell that's probably not it. So the big myth here with blue zones is there.
Ultra specific foods and diets that you eat. They're going to just really radically enhance your longevity and Ultra specific other foods and diet types that you eat. They're just going to croak you out real fast that's just not it.
You mentioned it earlier on what you're looking forward to from a future of longevity standpoint. I imagine some of it's probably got to do with AI some of it's probably got to do with computers and uploading and that's all the rest of it. Yes. Can human brain interface thing. Yes. And I imagine
imagine that some of it may be able to do with actually reversing aging as well. Drugs are imagine a I also makes the drugs that are going to reverse the aging. Yes what are the most promising areas when it comes to the future of Aging research? Yeah, Etc. Yeah
I'll probably do this, I'll try to do this in order of how it's likely to appear in the future. I'll probably get all this wrong so you can just take it for what it is. AI power drug Discovery began in earnest.
Full bore earlier this year.
The ability of AI.
To discover new effective drugs to address various disease. Conditions is for most people who have thought about it a little bit as yet unfathomable, it's a quality leap, it's
nonsense.
If you went back to 1985 in a time, machine forget that the time machine is also impressive in this case, and you gave someone an iPhone fully charged and somehow the iPhone Works through the time machine to access the modern internet.
It would be to the very best Engineers. Fucking baffling damn near Magic, but now we take it. Totally for granted, a kids that jump in the pool with their iPhone that I got crap it fried out. I'll just get another one who cares. So what I'm about to say all these crazy things. Remember that most humans do linear extrapolation, but the Arc of all of history, all of history, including pre history and biology, and physics and chemistry, chemistry, and physics is exponential in nature. This is not a
Debate. It's just it just is every single human or not, human biological or geological event that you plot on a chart. You need to plot on a log chart, so that gets rid of the exponent and that's still an exponent. So this is a real thing. And so when we people are like what is 2035 going to be, like they mostly do a linear approximation extrapolation but it's also a linear extrapolation of the very low slope, because most people have an inborn pessimistic bias which makes sense in the
Paleolithic era, in which we evolved because shits talk to you tonight. It should to suckley. Yeah. Your uncle probably got gored by a bison, every other day shit was off. So, things are going to get much better very quickly and then even faster, short of machines, killing all of us are world war three crazy shits gonna happen. Here's roughly, how I see the most likely timeline again. Huge just eat the whole salt shaker for this shit. Fuck a grain of
salt, all the salt,
but it's not good for longevity. So do as long as your blood pressure is fine, you're gonna go get
So probably one of the first things we're going to see is kobashi entire categories of disease with insanely powerful drugs. We're going to see in the late 2020s. Early 2030s like heart disease, gone, cancer gone, Alzheimer's gone. Just gone. Like don't take my word for it. We already have a category of viral and bacterial diseases that we've kiboshed who the fuck has you know anyone polio like a human. It is people who don't get polio anymore who dies of like rickets and shit like that. Like it just we laugh at it now.
But I used to just kill everyone. Can you imagine the 1600s really dude. Scurvy, not a thing in the future. They're like, you're kidding like know. There's guys drinking the Kool-Aid, there's no way. Like also cool AIDS in the future. Like what school aid you like it's it's great. It's it's okay. It's red and it's sweet and it's based on some Barry I'm not sure. So when you kobashi entire categories of these like that you just take morbidity down like crazy because living with like chronic cancer some shit or chronic heart disease Condition, it's a different kind of living than living truly healthy.
And in addition to that, it's going to bump up longevity, a ton and like, nowadays, the average person lives into their late 70s that might still be true in about eight years or so. But the distribution is going to close substantially. Yeah. And so the average person might live into their mid 80s not a ton higher but like way fewer people are dilated the bottom tail. Just goes right up. Yep. So that's probably going to be a big thing.
A probably a little bit later maybe sooner, who knows? We're going to get some traction on reverse aging. David Sinclair has spoken about this at length. He was real early to the reverse aging thing and the way it works in social media and news media is when you have one rat study that does cool shit people like this is it, when's it coming and it's like we needed some more time to get this going. But there's nothing about aging, really that precludes re altering the expression of your own DNA.
To just do better clean up and reverse your age as you present biologically, chronologically, No Time Machine, yet. I logically it's a tractable problem. There's nothing theoretically about it. That's like, that's just impossible. Because, again, it seems like like the shit, the genie from Aladdin wouldn't even do, you know, like the five, how do you reverse aging? It turns out that your body mostly ages because the ancestral evolutionary pressures to stay alive and healthy. And well, for a long time, we were just
Two are selected for like you're probably going to die by the time you're 27. So if we put one half of your metabolic pathways into doing constant DNA, clean up, you just suck at everything else and then you die. When you're 18, the world is not sufficiently stable for you. And there's not enough Providence in the world to keep you upright, so that you can feel your body for shit like that. However, if we get age reversal, right, both through Therapeutics and genetic engineering, we can have a situation where your body is actually.
Like, oh, I'm just never going to like, get lazy about these anti-aging effects. And you essentially just continue to live in a roughly 22 year, olds body. They've already done this in cell cultures, they've already done it in a few small animal models. It is not a huge lead to do it in Grand. Scale in humans at large with a I power type of shit that 10 years from now might be a legit thing. I done a hole on my other philosophy channel of doing a whole thing about the implications philosophically.
Really socially of what reverse aging is going to belabor Chris. Can you imagine taking 100 million elderly Americans and twenty thirty seven and three months later they all present as H22 physically? 22 years old cognitively sharp like 22 energy. Like 22 titties out like 22. What happens to your dick and balls something like 22.
Bro,
nightclub scene, you got to go back to your old job. Like holy shit Gold Rush. So all this other stuff could very well be on the horizon as a chance to just never works out. I would assign there's a low probability that so aging reversals a big deal, they talk about this thing. You brought up earlier, I think, off-camera, longevity, escape, velocity, when true robust, aging reversal comes in. That's the spaceship leaving the fucking atmosphere because short of getting hit by a bus to getting eaten by a crocodile, you might just never die because you're biologically.
Always 22.
So the most important thing for everybody now to live longer is to live
longer, okay? So that's a huge statement. It sounds like a tautology but it really is a thing. If you can just make it to the mid 2030s, there was a high probability that the great gentle powerful, arms of Biotech are going to lift you, the rest of the wage. It does go, the to 2035, that's where you need to reach you, right. You know, when the hero grabs, the heroines hand and lifting, the helicopter that type of shit. So as people are often,
Like okay.
I can have a lot of fun. Smoking, cigarettes, eating hamburgers, smoking hamburger, flavored cigarettes, cigarette shaped like a hamburger, every permutation thereof. But like, I don't want to be 88 in a nursing home who gives a shit up until quite recently. That was take a valid trade off. You could make like I'm gonna live forever. I'm on a fucking rock out dope and spirit, energy wise any, that's great. However, it's getting to be pretty clear that into the mid and late 2013.
Yes, the power of Biotech is going to be so fucking absurd. You probably want to make it to see that because you might just be getting a whole different level of ability to live longer at a healthy presentation. So we got that the next thing after that somewhere in the mix is genetic engineering. There are genes in your body that make proteins that make you age slower or faster. We can just select for the genes that make you age slower.
Or reverse aging or whatever else you want, or make you just not susceptible to entire categories of disease. Like we already know the genetic variants that basically the he'll just never get Alzheimer's and we know genetic variants that you're probably going to get Alzheimer's, probably really soon if we just rewire your DNA as an adult human you take some pills you take a shot and over the next several weeks. Feel kind of look a little different. We can do that. The big problem with that is one is a vector problem. How do you introduce the thing that? But but
Crispr makes these enormous leaps that you almost never hear about in the news is bullshit nerd talk. But now they have a pretty good control of the bacterial genome where they can
trade in a switch it on, such a
tall and it's just a few orders, of magnitude more complex. But the way I and biotech go, is they just leap orders of magnitude every two years or so? And so we might have in the 2030s, some, I should have a book called in the 2030s and it's just blank. It's like whatever the fuck you want. Magical bullshit's coming in the picture of my ugly face, but there's a situation where so that one
Is a vector problem? Probably, not a big problem, because turns out, we can Vector almost anything into your cells at this point and we're going to get better at that. The other problem is a combinatorial problem. I tweaked this Gene. I tweak that Gene, this one makes you live longer. This one makes you live extra long, but their proteins interact in high concentrations to poison you and your diet age to fuck. How do we even predict that? Well, a I can start to predict a lot of stuff and will eventually be able to predict more or less all the major functions of metabolism that human body and because if
If you simulate like the the the layer of phospholipids around your cells with a simulation that takes in most of the variance of how they are, you don't actually need to simulate every single Quantum interaction together, 99.999 percent like a functional functional, functional simulation. So AI. This is absolutely intractable for any human brain to do or any number of group of scientists on Earth working together. But for ai 2030s ai it would. There is a way if you just run the numbers which like Ray Kurzweil has done, for example, in many others,
It's just like easily tractable. It's like, if you ask a human nervous system at age one, can you kick a soccer ball into a goal? Like no fuck that without advanced doing that. What about a 15 year-old? You like something's wrong with you? If you can't do that. Like really, you know, complex the biomechanics of kicking a soccer ball really are like fucking really complex or 15 year old adult nervous system. It's an easy task. Same for AI, taking the human body and being able to essentially unfold, all the DNA figure out what everything does figure out interactive effect and then fold it back up and go. Here's what you need to.
Change to get this effect once we get that and completely different era of humanity, you want to be blue. Sweet, your blue, you want elf ears, you had elf ears, no, prom. What are the fucking want of all of the variation that humans can have genetically all of humans ever alive, occupy a fucking drop in an ocean, the size of the volume of the Earth. So it's not like everything in their kills. You and humans are the only things that are alive. It's that mostly most of human genetic variation is completely unexplored. And if you just
Annually through biotech engineer that you get to a point where people don't age and they don't die of disease and they're just kind of fucking dope and the even to be really Hardy like for example they could take a genetic variant and change the structure of your bones and double layer, your skull. So you get hit by a bus you die. Now, you get hit by a bus and you're like how you just walk off. It's totally possible to do all that stuff. But here's the really cool stuff happens at some point and Jared feather and I have a little running kind of inside. Better to what happens first, we don't know.
At some point, cybernetics is going to come in with like a cybernetics, you get your arm cut off today? They can give you a replacement arm but it kind of sucks compared to a real are. However, in 2024 the arm they can install already can ambulate. It can grab some objects. You have a little bit of feeling in their interacts with your nerves that ship in a 1990 was like straight-up science fiction a total insanity in the 2030s, maybe 2040s, but maybe earlier, you'll be able to, When Things fall off or don't function anymore, replace them with robot.
It's now I want to be on record saying this. I'm getting the whole fucking thing, done. How to be a robot if I get like my leg hurt? And they're like, well, we can also make replace it all there. Who can't replace your heart yet, I'm like, okay, fine, but everything else. So the ability to cybernetically replace things and enhance things means that you're in the situation where let's say, you could no longer ambulate because your quality of life, just totally sucks. You can't walk because your knees are too fucked up or something. If you get Bionic knees and bionic lower limbs entirely all of a sudden, social interaction can
energy, all the stuff you have access to it. So that's going to be a big deal. It's going to happen. I can tell you specifically, at the point where you're going to see a revolution where most humans, not all choose enhancement over, just staying biological. And I'll tell you, when this happens, look at the trajectory of how much cell phones have gotten better or TVs have gotten better over time. If the Improvement trajectory of technology versus biology radically fast measured in decades prior now its measured in Lake every year your current iPhone socks in the new ones, way better.
That is going to be the Paradigm. It already is to artificial limbs for example, so
whatever they gonna merge technological progress speeds with biological program or at least technological progress. Breeds are going to drag you along for the ride.
Yes. And here's the thing, if on a bionic arm is roughly the same ability set as your natural arm. Very few psychotic weirdos like me are going to go get their natural arm, cut off and
put a fucking bionic arm, just Vibes.
But if a bionic arm,
Three years later is 10 times better at everything, that your arm used to do, then you're real arm, a few of your friends, got it. You're like dude, your nuts bro. You cut off your arm like yams me. Like you get tired at work. Nope. It never gets tired. Like do I saw you hiking aren't there. A lot of like lions and shit around. You're like my arm is, I would anymore online and it just dies and I get like I've laid it shoots lasers, whatever the lasers thing is a joke, but at some point when technology gets so much faster than biology in the arm is a hundred or
Sometimes in every possible way better, people will choose to exercise their limbs and various other body parts eyes. Think about this. Have you ever seen the movie Ghost in the Shell? The, you know, cinematic rendition? It's ask Scarlett Johansson's in it. So it's nice. Even if you put it on mute, but this one dude gets his eyes. Fucked up through an explosion. He's like a special forces dude. And he gets a bionic eyes and planted and one of the features, he talks about, he's like, yeah, they got this. They got that. They got Mi. Umm, I had to like rewind and go back miles. Umm, but you can see
One mile ahead. If those eyes are real and they look like human eyes or even like a little bit cyberpunk, but not exactly human to not gettin that shit, I'm gonna fucking see him. I'll I want to see in the dark and if you're 22 or if you're 35 or 45, you're not taking your real eyes out for shit there. Whether there's a point zero zero, one percent that surgery goes wrong and you die. You never can see again it fuck that. But if you're 87 and you need a fucking the you know, you can't even see anymore. I'm getting a fucking cybernetic guys. So the cybernetic stuff is going to start this process, which has a distinct end
And that process is replacing human parts with machine parts until we can scan your brain know exactly every detail of your brain that we need to simulate your entire you. Because everything about you that's you is entirely enclosed in this period. Once we have the scanning technology and the AI Tech to do that, you can take your brain and download it into a robot body and have a separate copy of your brain doing. One of two things, one is sitting dormant lie in the
So that when your robot body gets crushed by a boulder because you decide to climb Mount Everest, you wake up in a bed and you're like, what the fuck? Where was I in there
you can you wake up in the back?
Yes, you do. I, this is not a philosophical debate at all. This is a giant red herring. I'll take this one on the chin. I'm getting really
pumped, until this is the most animated. You've
been what happens. If you have a biological, you and someone scans your brain and puts that brain in robot body in terms of off, which one's the real. You, there's a categorically correct answer to this question.
Both.
There's two of you now they're both you they're both going to feel exactly like you did just before they copied the brain. So if the real you dies fucking on Mount Everest and then you get uploaded to new robot and you wake up in a hospital bed. They're like, hey, you died on Everest graduations here pictures of you dying, you like, oh, that's dope. You won't remember that? Unless you were uploading to the Tesla cloud and then you will you will be the really you in every sense of the word that feels like the real you, your absolutely the real you because you're not even the real you.
To be all of the molecules of your brain, got replaced, the cells, replace every few days.
And if you think you have psychological continuity from that obviously, not from the dying thing, you're not going to like transport your sense of self from the guy under the boulder. The person in the bed. Yeah. What do you think here? We're getting lost
fee. Yeah, there are. I've publicized a thought experiment in which you will have continuity. So we do is put you in a kind of giant MRI scanner live, sort of situation, and it starts scanning your brain and it already simulated your entire brain and your current thoughts.
It's and then it clones the thoughts. And now there is an you that lives in the cloud. That's looking over your head with the camera Systems installers. Whoa, holy shit. I can see into my own fucking. That's me right there. But the you in here, you're just looking up and you're like, okay, is there me did the copying work and remember scanning everything live? And so what they do at this is a very morbid. They probably do it in a better way, but they go. Okay, you ready to for full transfer and you go ah, ha. And they go there, just cut your head right off so you biological you dies, but
Be part of the brain activity including your experience of your own death is modeled and experience live by cyber you. So oh my God I'm dying Riley shit that I'm still here in the cloud so once we can do that and again it's tractable for AI to do this. This is no mystical stuff involved. Then when you can live in a robot body or live in the cloud, there's going to be a couple of different ways people will go with that. Some people just never do it and God bless it. Fuck it it's weird. I believe in the soul fuck that the
The thing is, some people might embody themselves in robot bodies, do things in the physical world and then maybe like spend some other time in the digital world entirely and simulation. There are many many people. I'm convinced that will just be like I don't need a robot body. I just want to live in the fucking Cloud because in the cloud from nominally easy small amount of compute. You could just live as the hero. Any permanent Lord of the Rings fantasy That Never Ends. You could speed up your brain to go 1000x. You can live as a pirate, you can live as a clown, you can live as a, whatever infinite lifetimes of modeling that is super
Rustic post Singularity type of shit but that's where that's all headed. So tldr for this insane R and the for me the thing that keeps me at least to my extent of trade-offs interested in promoting my longevity and quality of life. Specifically, the longevity part is I want to make it to that dope AI medicine part. And once you make it to that your probability of death shifts down considerably, you make it to genetic, engineering it shifts again, you make it to age reversal. It
It's again, you make it to cybernetic it shifts again, if whoever makes it to when we're regularly, uploading people into the cloud short of the Earth getting hit by a comet and all the computer systems going, you're never going to die. Never, you know, I did some point the protons Decay whenever one times tend to the 126 million years in the future. So, for the first time it's realistic optimistic but realistic to say,
If you're ever interested in longevity and quality of life Improvement 2024 it's a fucking big deal. Now, now's the time together, shit, especially if you're older. Look, if you're 22, you want to smoke a shitload of cigarettes, fine, you'll probably still make it. Who gives a shit you like, I, you're running while you smoking cigarettes, like never quit. I never get X that one out, Jesus. So, but if you're in your 40s, especially if in your 50s and 60s and 70s, now,
The time to do all the right shit. We've been talking about because the payoff might not just be you live 10 years longer and it probably will be. It might be that weird as it seems to say you might just not die at a human time scale whatsoever. And then you're you know, you're into some
cool shit.
Dude, what a hopeful way to finish a conversation about, longevity and dying. Yeah, Mike has resulted ladies and gentlemen. Dude, thank you so much. You already know that I love all of the stuff that you're doing. It's being the best period to watch. You guys Crush RP, strength. I've been using my training at the moment. The last nine, ten months, or so. I told you when we train together has been the best games I've made in, probably a decade after using the app. So I highly recommend people go and check it out at the website, which is like a
Finer, don't say that you say that. What are P? Strength.com. Yes that's it. But
also go on our YouTube and follow all the links and we'll kick you to the site sooner or later.
Hell yeah, Mike, I
appreciate you Chris. Thank you so much.
