There's no reimbursement mechanism for a doctor, keeping people healthy and talk to them about things they can do to prevent illness because doctors are reimbursed by procedure like pills and procedures. That's what they give money for. That's what sends our kids through college. Not how healthy their patients
were. That's the great. Dr. Michael Greger. And this is the ritual podcast. Thanks for dropping by.
The ritual podcast.
Hey, you guys, my name is Rich Roll. Welcome to my show the show, where I do my best. I try. I really do try to have the most meaningful conversations. I can possibly have about things that matter with the best and the brightest, the most forward-thinking mines across all categories of Health, wellness, fitness entrepreneurship, environmentalism mindfulness.
Spirituality and Consciousness. And in the case of today's guests Health Nutrition and Medicine the name of the game to help all of us, unlock and unleash. Our best, most authentic cells, and along the way, hopefully, create a positive footprint for a better world anyway, thanks for tuning in today. I appreciate you subscribing to the show on iTunes, for taking a moment, to leave us a review there as well. And of course, for always using the Amazon Banner ad for,
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Okay, so a lot of anticipation about today's guests, I'm really excited. He is truly one of my favorite people. The wizard behind nutritionfacts.org, which is my favorite online destination for all things nutrition health and disease. Prevention my good friend, the one and only dr. Michael Greger himself and I got a bunch more. I want to say about him before we get into the interview. But first, shall we take care of a little business. We shall. Let's do that. Today's episode is brought to you by
Fried Health, your personal Healthcare Advocate. So if you've been following the show, then you know that I've been working with these guys for quite a while. At this point, I love the mission behind stride Health. All the hard work that they're putting into disrupting the Byzantine nature of Health Care to Simply provide individuals with easy and quick access to the information and the support that we all need to find the best HealthCare coverage for ourselves and our family members no alang. He's the founder of stride, he's a friend of mine, a fellow Stanford grad, a triathlete.
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Out today's episode is brought to you by Casper. Look at some point. Somebody probably told you futons are the way to go. The only problem even sleeping horribly on that thing for nearly a decade. And yet, you still can't bring yourself to Shell out for an actual mattress. I get it. I mean, who wants to get in the car head over to that creepy mattress store in the dicey part of town get assaulted by the schlocky sales dude. Strong-arming you out of thousands of dollars for a slab of strings. You're going to spend a third of your life on
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People, a graduate of Cornell and Tufts University School of Medicine, dr. Michael Greger is a physician. He's an author and an internationally recognized professional speaker on a wide. Variety of important, public health issues. When he's not traveling relentlessly to lecture, this guy's on the road constantly by day. He serves as director of Public Health and animal agriculture at the US Humane Society by night, because he doesn't sleep, he scours, the world's best most objective and Ironclad nutrition.
Search to bring you free videos and articles every single day, a new video. Every single day. Amazing on his incredibly informative nonprofit website, called nutritionfacts.org. If you have not been to this site, I suggest that you hit. Pause immediately and go check it out right now. It's always my first stop when I want to get to the bottom of any question. I have about food diet, health or disease, and I cannot overstate just what an incredible resource. It is a robust unbelievably.
Of Clearinghouse essentially on every imaginable facet of nutrition and health. Each of his hundreds of short videos are impeccably researched easily understandable and maybe most importantly straight to the point dr. Greger has published in many scientific journals. He's testified before Congress lectured at countless, symposiums and institutions everywhere from the conference on world affairs to the National Institutes of Health. He was an expert witness in the infamous Oprah, Winfrey meet
Defamation lawsuit, and he's appeared all over TV on shows like dr. Oz and even The Colbert Report, which we discussed in the podcast.
Most exciting is that he has a new book coming out this week, December 8, it's called how to not die. Wait a minute. No, it's not, right. It's called how not to die. I always do that. Always screwing this up, how not to die. Discover the food scientifically proven to prevent and reverse disease. I was lucky enough to get an advance copy of the book, and I think it's fair to say that it is like a game changer. It's an absolute Beast of a book that examines the top 15 causes of premature death in America.
Explains in great detail how nutritional and lifestyle interventions can help prevent and often reverse them. I cannot recommend the book more highly. It is an absolute must-read and because he's super cool. All his speaking fees and proceeds that he receives from the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to charity. That is unbelievable. This is the kind of service oriented amazing person that he is. So it's just another good reason to not only pick up the book, but feel good about your purchase. If you're a
NG time listener to the show then, you know that dr. Gregor was one of my very first guest on the RP. All the way back at episode 7 when I had no idea what I was doing. Not that I do now and I'm delighted that. Now, he's back to talk a little bit more about his life, his research and how not to die, how not to die. Yeah, that's right. How not to die, which is a subject. I think we can all get behind.
You ready to rock? Let's rock it by the way. I've done, zero preparation. So you're going to take the lead here. Anything you want, you know, I can but here's one thing. Yeah, promise you that this time I'm not going to lose the recording. Do you
remember that? I do remember that I terrible. It was a good ride, think it was good. Well II know I did what we said but I
can't remember exactly what happened somewhere. The digital audio file, got corrupted or I broke the record some that I think I was recording.
Directly into GarageBand and I crashed on me, I don't know what happened but my sincere
apologies. That's okay. This time. It's
getting better. I got a sermon just for me on that one. But yeah man you were one of the Og man. The original guest. I think it was episode 7. It's awesome by Skype but this time we're going to really make some
magic. Yeah. Wow. Now we got reel microphones,
man. I know it's exciting, right? So so many things to talk about,
Out. But my first question for you is this
How did not die or how to or how not to die. Tommy him out. There must have been some behind-the-scenes conversations about that right. Yes. Breaking out like quick English language to get
some grammar nerds in here, Greg. Yeah, yeah, yes. You just how not to die. Prematurely in pain. After long disabling illness you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But not to die.
How not to die? That's not
The way we want to go and good news is that we have tremendous power over our health Destiny, who knew, man? I know and so the power is in our hands. It's
crazy. So I got an advance copy of this book and it's like it's a book, man. What is it? Like, 550
page, 600 600 600. But 150 though is just a
hundred and fifty pages of notes of
citations, you know, they actually want to put down line like they wanted to dump the citations on.
Just to save cost burning the bread rise? Like, no way
man. It's got to go in there and it because you got to be able to prove it
up. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's for yet. I'm hoping, it'll be, I mean, kind of the reference, but it's kind of like two books in one, the first half, right? It's really just kind of everything I've done in the website, you know, thousand videos condensed into just kind of all the most compelling stuff. And then, you know what, chapter by chapter 15, didn't cause the death, but then the second half is really what? I'm most proud of, because
I mean, not that anyone wants to sit through a Gregor marathon of a thousand videos,
but I don't know. I think there's a lot of hair that just might do
that. But I mean, that's what I thought. I went into it thinking. That that's what the book would be would just be like another format to, to put the same message out of the same material, but I'll just be in book form. But then I realized, you know, one thing I can't do on the site is, I mean, I'm I really try to keep my opinion out of it.
It right. I mean it's not it's not always easy and it slips through but it's like this is the science right here. It is. You can make up your own mind just as much as I do. People ask me all these questions I'm like, well look, I mean you know, okay well then what should I do? Okay, you just said that, you know, you think, you know, a half teaspoon, turmeric does this? Okay, so what do I do? And I'm like well you just saw the site. I just laid out this I don't know any more than you did like here it
is but you're the answer guy you're swell no all like
well Sue but obviously I don't want I don't want
It to be the dr. Greger diet right? I want to be the best available balance of evidence
diet. Right there was there was there a pressure from the publisher to make it the Gregor diet? No. To be a diet book, it has to say diet, one
title resident, recipe fluff, that kind of stuff that I really pushed back on. But what the book allowed me to do is be like, all right. Well what do I do kind of in my own life? How do I synthesize all this information for my own kind of day-to-day practice
And so that's the that's the kind of free reign I had. And it would change kind of week by week. I go to the library, I'd come home, my family, be like, why does everything have parsley in it all the sudden, all right, or or, well, what can we eat this way? You know, that kind of, you know, here comes the bummer
man. No, no. Let me read
about this, but but slowly, but surely, I'd be like, oh way. All right, we gotta get onions in our diet, somehow, you know, we got to get this in our diet. And so I started to kind of
Checklist of like how date Bean type, any freakin leg comes today, I can't believe it, you know, day goes by so quick. So I just started making this like little whiteboard checklist and that kind of morphed into this kind of daily dozen concept. The, the, you know, that I take on the book and not that I have a checklist anymore, but it just, it was like a helpful reminder. At the beginning to be, like, ah, got to fit all this stuff in. And so that's how I kind of lay it out. Kind of for kind of help from meal
planning, right? I mean,
It's so dense. I mean it really is a Bible and a reference manual. It's sort of like the be-all-end-all ultimate Authority. If you're interested in plant based at all or not or just not wanting to die, you can like crack this thing open and you don't necessarily have to read it and and but you can find what applies to you or what you're interested in and it's very dense and it's science, you know. So I think it's easy, it would be easy without that second section to just get lost in the science and then go. Well, I don't know what to do it like, you know, tell
Tell me what the protocol is to just avoid these things and make it
simple, right? So it ends up, okay, Whole Food plant-based, but what does that mean? Like, what do I mean by? Who do I mean by process? What about what is plant base? Right? Well, so process for me, is nothing, bad added, nothing, good. Take it away, right? So there are some quote unquote processed foods. I don't consider process under that definition. So like for example cocoa powder, right? That's processed you see cocoa powder growing on any
Trees know. But in that case, they actually removed the cocoa butter, the fat, the the code, which is a, you know, just saturated can raise your raise your cholesterol bit. And so there they actually improved on the food, right? So they took this naturally, one of the few kind of rare tropical fats with a lot of saturated, you know. So that's palm oil, palm kernel oil, coconut oil and cocoa butter. And so they actually took something out. So I so I, so if that doesn't fit
Of the process definition even though of course is highly processed but because nothing bad was added, nothing. Good was taken
away. Gotcha. So let's break it down. I mean, this basically the premise or the kind of spine of this whole thing is taking a look at the 15 leading causes of death. Right. Right. Do you have a memorized? Well
so I mean what I this is actually different so I my how this came out was from my original operating leading cause of death kind of annual review back in
How years ago why put together? I list the top 15 cup but like you know, killer number two was cancer like all cancer. And so you have to give a real broad overview but here what I did is I split it all up. And so there is a chapter on breast cancer, a chapter on prostate cancer Chan, then specifically, liver cancer specifically, esophageal cancer, digestive Cancers. And so there's like a chapter on each because it's, you know, there are there are kind of important differences things you can really Target. So that's how I was able to kind of splay it out. So still actually ghost,
Through 15. But it's just kind of a little more in depth, a little more because now, all of a sudden had time, you know, in the videos, like, I tried at the 4-minute Mark, right videos under four minutes because that's about the, the kind of time span that. I know that people are on my side x. I mean, you know, about four minutes, you lose them, right? And so, you know, what can you do in four minutes, right? You can hit all the major, you know, the foot us. Interesting, put a
couple cats in there. Yeah, what I squeezed, another minute out.
Here we go. Right, let's see.
Right. That's what I got to
do, right?
So, but here I was like, wow, I can go deep, right? And so I actually ended up doing a lot more research that, you know, actually, I'm going to turn into videos kind of later on just because I don't want to lose this stuff but you know, because they're worth, you know, because I wanted to really kind of do a deep dive through all these. And so it was actually, I mean, it's actually a lot of fun. I had time to do it, you went time. I had time
to decipher
This could, this could easily we could go into the weeds and this could become a productivity podcast because you're one of the most productive humans that I've ever seen. I mean, you the level of commitment is insane. I mean, you're on the road constantly every conference. I go to a year, they're like 60 Keynotes, a year on average, basically got will know. I mean, my Facebook.
My, I'm doing 60 cities in five countries in three
months. Wow, starting in
December. Yeah, well, it's kind of
First half of December to the holidays, but then starting hardcore,
January, and then above, and beyond that a new video. Every you're still on one new one
every single day, weekdays new video or article. So new videos, Monday, Wednesday Friday, new articles, Tuesday,
Thursday, and then on top of that, you have a full-time job. Yeah. Jess. You guys, the whole full-time
job thing? Yeah, does that work? Well, I mean, they, you know, they each kind of fuel me and different way. So like, you know, so during the day,
Hsus I'm doing kind of infectious disease work, you know bird flu mad cow, you know, swine flu that kind of stuff infect and then at night is when I then I do the chronic disease, you know. Right. I do the you
know but how do you have time to pour through all of the the
research that's been a that stuff. So now we're up to about twenty four thousand articles published every year in the English language on nutrition. All right so that's like 70 articles a day so like you fit that is like how I mean even if you were up 24 hours,
Hours, you can read that
many, right? So please tell me you have a team of is so on
turns, you know. No so now I we got 14 staff now. So I mean so we have a we have a big
staff, they all NDC.
No vague none or did the last one is actually leaving me going to to Colorado. But that's the nice thing about this working. Do it anywhere anywhere. In fact, I bet there's folks, I don't even know where that you never met them. I'm looking, I'm looking at their Skype background going, what is it snowing up there? What's going on?
And, but, I mean, that's the wonderful thing about this kind of work. I mean, you can do it anywhere and so. Yeah. So it's and so it's about a dozen researchers and then a couple of people just doing with just a skit, everything up on the
site. So they pour through it. I mean, do you say look, this is a subject that I'm interested in or do they just pour through the research and come up with. Here's 10 articles that, I think are relevant to your subject
matter. But mostly now it's more a little more directive than that. It's mostly. Kind of this, iterative citation searching. So let's say I find it a really awesome article, then you go, two directions.
Look at every single article that ever cited that article using something called Web of science. Where I mean, you want to know what did everyone else think of this article when it came out in 1977, right? Everyone siding that article in the next few decades, maybe it was totally thrown out. Maybe it was like, you know, accused of fraud or attractive or you know, you have no idea. And then you want to go through every article that that article cited to see if they actually put it together. The way they say, they put it together, right? If there actually is a foundation. And so you see that
That cone one study sites, 20 studies that side, 20 other studies, you go to levels down and you are in the, you know, I mean, you're just you know, that's great. You're just drowning and so that's what I do is I send people off, you know, you know, here's this article just go through all the citations and, you know, pull all the articles that they side and just, you know, want to make sure we're on level and, you know, too often. And this what scares me like, all have the video almost like totally wrapped up. And then, I'll come across an article and it changes
My entire Outlook, mmm. I mean, and so my conclusion is completely different and I'm like, had I not seen that article? I you know it would have had a completely different and that freaks me out and so that some when I was doing this all alone, you know, that was a real. But so now I can be like, okay, does this article rep really kind of represent the kind of best available best available balance of evidence? Like is this like an outlier, should I be looking at this ask you?
Or is this really kind of Representative of what's going on? Since you can't do that by looking at one article, that's why you need a team to
really write. Did you think so that brings up a kind of interesting question, which is, you know, you're trying to be as objective as possible. The site is called nutritionfacts.org. It is a nonprofit organization, but clearly you are, you know, your long time, Whole Food, plant-based guy, that's your perspective, on the world. So how do you prevent that from, you know, coloring how you review these?
He's, I mean what happens if you come across a study that contravenes, you know, sort of your basic philosophy or if you ever do, and how do you kind of reconcile, that, or make sure that you really are approaching everything completely, as objectively
as possible? That's critical right? So, there's this concept called confirmation bias where we naturally it's kind of in born in our brains must have some kind of evolutionary advantage to kind of see the world through our particular perspective and we seek out facts and figures and science that supports
Our position and then just somehow either right? Disregard or on coming out of your consciously, you know, we just don't take it as seriously and and so that's a real debt. So that's like that, that's the death knell for a scientist, right? I mean, they really have to approach it with this kind of beginner's mind, and come in, and be totally ready to throw out everything, they've always believed in if the science turns out to be different now, for nutritional
I mean, there's just been this remarkable consistency for decades and maybe the bottom line is really been the saying, you know, fruits and vegetables were good for you. They continue to be good for you probably you know but but certainly there are things that come up that really like, you know, question not just mechanisms how we thought something was happening before, but, you know, you know, scaring. I was just one of the latest things actually changed my own kind of day-to-day died recently.
Cently was, they just did all this testing for lead levels and T coming out of China. Turns out, China didn't get rid of leaded, gas until 2000. And so you actually see, you could actually measure the lead levels exponentially dropping off from the road, like, in the tea plantations. Like you can see how much less how far it is away from the road, right? And it's actually not a problem for people that Brew tea because the lead doesn't go from the leaf into the water, but I've been telling people to put it in the smoothies, right? To grind it up or use matcha tea ground, you know.
See these because I figure, it's like, I mean, throwing away, tea leaves, this like boiling collard greens, throwing out the collars and drinking, the water, you'll get some nutrition. But why not eat the leaves? Like it seems like such a waste. So I was like yeah, throw the delays in, right? Okay. If they're from Japan, right bud. But no longer and you know all the cheapest T is from China and so that was bad advice. Of course it wasn't bad advice until I mean, it was good advice at the time or so I thought but something like that where it's the kind of
A fundamental recommendation gets changed and then it's like, how do I get everyone? Who saw that original video, you know, on the, on the new plan. And so I'm like, you got to subscribe
because I can pull down earlier videos where you recommended putting tea leaves. And
what I did is I have a warrant, I have a like I have a shot with it's called the doctors know right below the video that gives kind of context or changes or whatever and So eventually get around to actually just re recording the video or dumping entirely.
But I haven't, he saying, make sure you check out this other video where I talked about the lead contamination because I was a serious issue. And then for pregnant women this is how much you can have of each different type of T and H different kind of country. If you're a kid this is how you do it. If you're drinking it, if it's black tea if it's you know, so I go through I'd got charts and you know, but I mean it's like that kind of thing. It's like you just feel this weight of responsibility you tell one thing, right? Because you found a really good paper on something and then who knows, you know, if you didn't do it,
A good thorough search. You know, you can find out the next day and you've already kind of you know, corrupted people's, you
know, right? And and you have I mean 1.5 million subscribers, right? Pablo that are consistently watching your videos.
Well we at one point what we have 1.8 million hits a month but and only about half of that is old people coming back. Have about it. Is new traffic. And
what how many views is a typical video? Get,
that's a good.
Russian. I don't know video by video, so I just can't know day by day
and so an average day.
So and so average day so you know, sixty thousand a day, some like that, right? And and you know, it's slowly going up. See we've never spent any like money on Advertising promotion never did ads, never did whatever. So I'll just kind of word of mouth. I just have a feeling, there's so many people out there that if they had, if they knew about the site, they'd be interested in them, but they've just never, you know, they don't
know.
Right. Well the book is going to
change that. That's what I'm hoping I'm at. I think it'll really
well overdue for this.
That would I mean right? No no. I mean if it interests a major media it's got some Morning Show or something really kind of take it to the next level and the information I just keep telling myself look it's there it'll always be there it's on the right. So eventually when people figure it out, they'll go back and they can look at all the stuff that I've poured, my Blood Sweat, and Tears into
right and left and back to, you know, the process of compiling these videos and
Through the research and all of that, I think it warrants like at least a brief discussion about how nutrition science works. In the research arena in the sense that you know, look, all these Studies have to be funded by somebody, right? And so of course, you have to parse through will who's behind this and you know, who stands to gain from this and with more and more corporate dollars kind of pouring into this field. You know, how does that impact? How you look at these studies and evaluate them and either
Discard them or or you know, give them wait or, you know, sort of, you know, slide that that's scale of
value. Yeah, yeah, it's so much of science is now follow the money. And so what do you do with, you know, an egg board funded study or the, you know, Cattlemen's, beef Association? You don't know the problem with conflicts of interest is these Financial conflicts of interest? Is that?
You don't know what to do with them because I mean, basically the the big controversy is did they or did they not divulge their conflicts of interest, right? I mean that's kind of the big, you know, you know. Oh did they get money? Was it did meet a certain level, a lot of journals be like if you can get $5,000 but if you get $5,001 all the sudden you have to list that you got funding for saucers but that's not for me. That's not the issue. The issue isn't just the science. Hold up fact that there's this
This money in science in the first place. I mean, the fact that there's a the conflict of interest is there, not whether it's disclosed or not and it's because you get a study, you get to study this show nuts is great and it's done by the Walnut commission and you saying okay is it? I mean, do they make stuff up? Did they just design a study to give a certain point? Or is it totally a great study and they just wouldn't have gone done. And we should be thanking the one the commission because otherwise we wouldn't know about the one
Walnuts. Right? And so basically it just gives you makes you think again makes you really dive into the, you know, materials and methods and be like, okay, did they put this study together in a way to get some kind of desired result
and how often, when you look at such a study, do you come to the conclusion? Like, oh, no, it actually it holds up. I understand, there is this conflict of interest built into it, but nonetheless, I can still see the value of this.
This or is it almost invariably a situation where you're discarding
it? Well, it's, you know, often rather than discarding it. I actually you know, do a video about it and show exactly what they did. Like this is how, you know, the Bold study this beef study, they talk around how you can add you lean beef to a diet and your cholesterol gets better and what they do, they added lean beef to a diet in which they cut out cheese and chicken so much. They actually drop saturated fat below that.
Adding so you added beef to the diet, be cut out so much cheese and chicken that you actually have less saturated fat and the cholesterol went down surprise surprise. I mean it's just such kind of blatant stuff that anyone even taking a second. Look at it would maybe just pop right up as like kind of just that this outrageous manipulation but really gets
tons of privately people don't nobody. Nobody gives it a second. Look other than people like yourself and and certainly, you know, unless you have a really kind of
Of, you know, sort of unusual journalist, who's willing to kind of do that kind of work. It ends up in the media. So there's this enmeshed kind of media relationship that translates into, you know, butter is back on the cover of Time Magazine. And, you know, all the sort of stuff that occurs or just the sort of dismissal of the latest World Health Organization recommendations on red meat and processed Meats. Right? Which we can talk about a little bit less. But
yeah, you know, one more, you know, one of the things
Conflicts that makes it even more difficult. Is it beyond the financial conflicts? There are kind of like ideological conflicts or so, for example, there's this amazing research on the spice saffron, right? That and all and it's all independently funded but they're all these Iranian scientists and saffron is like this major export out of. I mean that's like the number-one producer in the world. They have this great National Pride over the stuff, is it possible? They're tweaking results. I mean, it would be nice to just get some
Independent, even though they're not getting money from the saffron industry, right? Or if you have all these New Zealand, kiwi fruits are great studies, you're just like, okay. But I would love to see a, you know, a Scottish kiwifruit study sewing out, great, you know I
mean come on, what is there such thing as an independent study? I mean somebody's got to pay for this. Yeah. Well know how does that
work should be publicly funded right? I mean so the yeah that's what we have, they should National Institutes of Health for. I mean we you know that this is a public good and so we should have public
I'm saying otherwise we run into all these
problems but what does that look like? I mean how many of these studies really are publicly funded. They're certainly can't be adequate amount of funding to really do the extent of nutritional research that I would imagine you
would. And that's right. And that's why we and that's why we have these problems. I mean so you know there's you know, you get some, you know, the there's these, you know, great folks out there, like David Katz, at Yale, who's accepted egg board money to run these eggs studies. And, you know, you talked to him about it, he's like
Like where do you get my like, if you don't accept money from, you know, corporations these days, are you going to fund your? You just can't fund a research team, where you going to pay your grad students from him? It's just like, you know, I mean, it's a real issue. And so the answer
and David Katz is one of the good
guys. Absolutely no, no tremendous respect for him. Right. But it's like, you gotta deal with reality, you got to deal with it, you know, the, the, you know. And so it's all nice for us to say, oh, we should be all in.
Patent. But it's like okay well get the money from somewhere. It's interesting. Some of these studies were like literally out of scientists own pocket like they thought they had this really great idea. They wanted to you know, see if it worked and so they did it themselves, you know. But with no corporate budget driving its promotion, it just gets buried in some dusty stacks of some, you know, Library basement and never sees the light of day. And so I saw it as my kind of role in the world is to take all that, amazing sighs that was done.
Done. Even if it gets past the funding stage but then just got lost to the world. I'm because you know for the same reason you don't see ads on TV for sweet potatoes it's just no kind of profit motive to get it out to the
world, right? So so what's your reaction when you see something in the media that you feel is not an accurate representation of what's going on, like, right now, you know, let's just talk about the low-carb. Craze, everybody's all about low carb. Ketosis is the greatest thing.
Are you don't like all this sort of stuff, right? And that's very, very popular right now. There's a lot of people who are espousing the benefits of this, not just for weight loss, but for health and, you know, to the extent that it makes it on the cover of Time Magazine and
then saturated fat. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's just yeah, I try to stay as much weight as much as possible from the Les media just
because, but your job, I mean, you're a voice piece for the layperson, right? It's almost your mantle to translate this Stone.
All right. No sometimes I'm kind of forced into it. I'm so like the saturated fat studies this like I always am hoping someone else to take it on because I just want to you know cover the cover the size and I kind of go back and fight back against you know. But you know I wait I wait. No one's going to do it. Okay fine I'll do it right like no one did a really good thing against Adkins. So finally I you know wrote the book on Atkins and then you know and so I mean I usually get kind of
Dragged into it later on hoping that someone will else will kind of take the mantle and do that kind of peace. And let me just stick to the signs and, you know, rather than kind of because otherwise you just get
caught in the. Yeah, it's like a vicious cycle. Of he said she said I
write the but the you know the the the who story about process me, that was a real
breakthrough. Yeah. And it made a lot of media and there was a lot of Internet chatter of course, but I am worth but I think, you know, it's really making
'Well, question. You know, they're their dietary choices.
When it comes to that stuff. You know what's interesting though, which seems to be kind of bearing the lead here. But, you know, it's a process meat. So you read a good, you know, kind of in-depth story about the talk about this 34,000 number where they looked at the burden of disease study which the biggest study looking at, risk factors and death and mortality in the world funded by The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the World Bank. This is the study to find out how many people soda kills, how many people process meat?
How many lives you could save if people ate whole grains or fruits or more vegetables? I mean, this was the study that put it all together and found the 34,000 cancer, deaths a year, link to to processed meat consumption, but that same study that's been quoted in all these things found that eight hundred and forty thousand people over all died from processed meat because it contributes to high blood pressure, kidney disease, all these other things. And so, okay, there's that, you know what about the other eight hundred thousand but there's like a meatball
Born epidemic every year of people dying from process me. I may be cancer was almost
like the footnote is
due to the massive amount of, right? I mean in fact I mean there's these studies you know you know estimating that you know if you know if everyone way processed meat cut down the process meat consumption like a half strip of bacon, a day, from whatever they're eating before. Like how much we could, how many lives we can save on a population?
Like a certain percentage of mortality overall for the entire population could be prevented if this is just amazing stats. And
right? Because all the attention was on cancer and it was like, if you broke down the numbers and the percentages, it's still really would only impact like a relatively few number of
people right now, right. So raising rates of raising your, you know, risk of colon cancer. Few percent. I mean, you know, and so colon cancer is now the third leading cancer. Killer what about heart disease? What
About. I mean, there's so I do made the the risk associated with these products, but that's maybe part of the kind of reductionism where, you know, we used to talk about individual nutrients. Now, we're talking about individual Foods as they pertain to particular diseases. But I mean, you have to look at the impact. I mean, so like the good impact of, you know, this one, you know, broccoli not only impact, you know, my talk about, you know, I have a little broccoli chapter then and say as I mentioned in chapters 1, 3 5 7 and, you know, and I live
Ganzar and the stroke and just like whole plant foods can benefit multiple body systems. You can see some of these foods that are adversely impact, can adverse impact the entire organism, right? So you really need to look at it overall. And so when someone says so let's say there was a study that came out that said you know bacon was good for preventing cataracts or something. That would never do that because this is an oxidation thing, but it's like, even if it was good, here's his body of evidence showing bacon, does all these other horses.
Herbal things to your body. So it's like, you still wouldn't eat it. You know, it's like some people say to me, aren't you cherry-picking here? I have a study. That's like independent that shows that, you know, the opposite of what you said. And, you know, that that's that, that was actually a tobacco industry tactic, with a, they criticized, the American Lung Association. They actually have a stack of a hundred papers showing. The smoking is good for you, not neutral, not, not bad, but actually good for you and they
The American Lung Association for never mentioning this body of evidence showing how good smoking is for you. For example, smoking, protects against ulcerative colitis, poking protects against Parkinson's disease, very strong protection against Parkinson's disease, and right. Okay. Now, and why don't they ever mention? It's like this anti-smoking conspiracy. It's like, they won't think they're right. And so, but, okay, fine tobacco protects against Parkinson's, but
Even if you just forget lung cancer, forget if you just cared about your brain, you still wouldn't smoke because it's so increases. Your stroke risk. I like, it's so like so you understand how the American Lung Association is sticking with the overall balance of evidence and trying to represent what the body of evidence shows the body of evidence shows that smoking is bad and so that's why the the studies that they promote and have on their website.
What's the overall body of evidence? I mean, and people just seem to, you know, Miss that
point, right? Well, it's you have to reconcile the scientific method which by its very nature is reductionist, right? And your videos. You know, they're they're reductionist and following that scientific method and looking at specific things and they're sort of direct impact on other things, right? But how do you reconcile that with stepping outside of that reductionist method and understanding that, you know, we need a more holistic.
Dick approach that, you know, broccoli does many things. It doesn't just do one thing and trying to kind of convey that message and get that across, right? It's almost like these two worlds are at odds with each other. You need the reductionist science in order to discover how these mechanisms operate. But you also have to keep in mind this holistic
approach. And so that's why you'll see the kind of the whole scope for some of my videos. You know, I talk about the one enzyme affected by because I, you know, I just find it so fascinating, we finally figured out. Why
You know, you know, eating plant-based, boost your metabolism or something. Oh, it's this cartoon bubble transferase, that's so cool. And this is how it works and, you know, she Kika. But but then no, but then he's okay. But let's look at the big population level. What are the populations that are free these chronic Western disease? What are they eating? And then you just kind of build the evidence you know up and down it when people say like what's the one study that I want to like give to my doctor whatever? It's like well it's a whole body of evidence you know. I can you give me a
These give me, you know what I can say. All right, well, this is the best paper, which really this overwhelming body of evidence from both epidemiological studies in vitro studies. All the way up, teach randomized, control, trials, and you put the, you know, body of science together. It's just this really powerful argument and beyond that, you know, this this kind of this kind of cherry-picking accusation, a lot of times there's just one Cherry. So, for example, there's only one diet ever been shown.
To reverse heart disease. The majority of patients, only one plant-based diet, right? If that's all a plant-based diet could do reverse, our number one killer, shouldn't that be the default diet until proven otherwise, and the fact that it also, you know, prevent treating reverse type 2 diabetes and hypertension. All these other leading Killers seem to make the case of woman, but it's like it's hard to cherry-pick when there's only one Cherry, there's no other diet that has been shown that. So it's like
Bring it on. So do you guys know exist?
Do you do you get frustrated when you feel like people aren't getting this? I mean you're shouting from the mountaintops and have been for some time along with some other people and certainly plant-based diet is picking up steam as becoming, you know, much more prevalent in mainstream Consciousness, but I'm not so sure we're quite there yet, right? Like when you read the
headline, right? No, no, no. But you know but the my faith comes from this democratization of knowledge. What it used to be where if you wanted to
Information about health, you know, kind of the, that's what a physician did. They held this kind of Monopoly? And so the drug companies, if they had the physician in their pocket, they had everything in their pocket, right? Because that was like the official mediator between you and any kind of information, right? And and so there was, there's science back to the 30 showing lung cancer and smoking, right? Landmark 1958 article, you know, the Adventists studying, 90% less lung cancer in non-smokers, but of course, you never
heard about it, right? Because you could just never get to the general
public, right? Unless it's in the Washington Post or your doctor is going to tell you who's going to go to the basement of some library and start going through
microfiche and Washington Post isn't going to run it because you're running cigarette ads, right? Right. So but now things have changed right now we have access, we no longer have to have this mediator, you are became us and, you know, the body of science out there. And so I find that
Exciting. It's profound never in the history of humankind, how we have this kind of access to information
so we don't have to wait for a doctor to tell us to quit smoking right when it comes to Safe. Simple side-effect free Solutions. We can take our you know, our own health Destiny and our family's health and our own hands and improving. We don't have to wait till Society. Not only do we not have to
wait, we shouldn't wait
because it's a hundred other. They're never
taught it in medical school.
Anyway. Absolutely. So but so that okay now along with that millions of voices.
Voices and that democratization of knowledge, of course, there's all this garbage out there but eventually you have the sense that the truth will kind of float to the
surface. You're optimistic about that because I feel like there's a war on the internet who can be loudest wins the day and when you have a lot of resources to Pepper the internet with all kinds of crazy articles, you can easily obviously skate the truth or just at a minimum confuse people and when people are confused, then they're going to default to their, you know, their basic
habits and know absolutely that in fact
That that's an explicit strategy among you know big tobacco all the way through big food. There's this famous tobacco industry. Memo doubt is our product, right? This is a PR firm hired by the tobacco industry and we don't have to convince people. Smoking is good for you. All we have to do is introduce others, two sides. Yes, I'm set some scientists A Smokies. Good. Some say smoking is bad. All you had to do doubt is our product and then people just throw their hands up in the air do whatever the heck they
want. Right? And I feel like you know sort of television news
Or television sort of talk show, you know, structures are set up where you have all these Talking Heads, and everybody's given equal credibility, you know, sort of this seemingly democratization of ideas. When in reality, somebody could be a complete expert in. Somebody else could be an absolute knucklehead and they're given kind of equal are right? And so the consumer is left with thinking, well, there's two sides to something when now there's the truth and then there's something that's not the truth.
And so it's all about
Back to the science. What is the sign show? I mean, we none of us were born with this knowledge so when someone says something out of her mouth, you said okay well where did you find that? I mean, where did you, how did you come to that conclusion? I mean, where did you deduce that they said, oh well here's my body of evidence that supports this and who has the time to go through the look to that, I have the time and I've made it my, you know I mean that's what you know where the guy I've made it. My mission to take this information. Look we're Nash, was ornish proved. You can reverse heart disease and
Randomized control, trial, 1990, July 1990, in the Lancet that everything should have changed the next day and the fact that it didn't is a real wake-up. Call was a real wake-up call for me politically. It's like wait a second, there's more than just science going on in medicine. Right. There's more than just there are there's reimbursement. There's I mean there's this whole kind of structure set up to kind of go at odds with these, you know,
kind of like there's been this weird kind of reductionist opinion about ornish's.
Work and you see him sort of getting thrown under the bus in the media like oh well yeah didn't really have to do with diet had to do with the lifestyle recommendations that he was making. And he's sort of been seemingly dismissed when in reality you know he was sort of speaking the truth all along
right and been absolute Pioneer and then of course, others have taken his work like esselstyn and said, okay let's cut out the Stress Management the touchy feeling as the exercise everything and just what to dietary changes show in fact in
Kane cases, don't even put people on stands and just see purely. Can this diverse art season saw these extraordinary results and then it's like wilcott not that we shouldn't be managing her stress and exercising, everything else. But I mean shows that the, you know, the proof is in the vegan
pudding, right? Just to remove all the other variables.
Yeah. When you need that,
right? What are some of the other sort of crazy, you know, tobacco industry tactics that you've come across in some of the
research on believable know. So,
And it's really I mean it's almost those are some of the funnest, you know, studies. Because I mean, you're like, wow. Like before I even read the study, I'm like, okay, if I was an egg researcher and I wanted to prove this, how would I do it? Knowing what I know right. And so you know, let's how do I prove that cholesterol that eggs. Don't raise your cholesterol, right? Hmm. Well this is plateau effect where after a certain amount of cholesterol your kind of cholesterol receptors get
All clogged down and saturated such that you eat more cholesterol. Your body's not going to accept any more, right? Your kind of topped off. All right, so let's paper, let's add people eat, you know, compare 10 eggs, a day to 20 eggs a day. You compare ten to a hundred, you're not going to get any more but that's not the moon but that's how you would design a study. You look at the study that's how they designed the study. I mean, it's just like but that's you know, I mean and sometimes sometimes it takes you a while to figure out, you know, kind of. But the
idea behind zil's I think I
Seen on the internet. A lot of people saying that dietary cholesterol does not raise serum cholesterol, that there's no relationship between those
two. Oh, and that's, that's, that's completely false. In fact, we have these meta-analyses and whose base. I mean, look, this is, I mean, this was coming from, you know, the dietary guidelines committee came out and said we're moving dietary cholesterol as a kind of nutrient of concern and they did that in part based on the AHA AC guidelines, the American Academy.
The, the American Heart Association American. Kevin me, Cardiology who said in their latest review of the literature that we see know that. There's that there's no there's no link between the kind of dietary cholesterol and and serum cholesterol. But that was within their parameters, which was last 20 years because every 20 years, they do a review. And so this is like, okay, nothing new. There hasn't been any studies on dietary cholesterol and sir.
Because it's a research question. That was definitively answered decades ago. In fact, so I think they looked at the last 20 years, if you go back like 22 years in 23 years, is too big meta-analyses of the last 30 years of data with, you know, dozens of these metabolic Ward studies where you take people, you lock them in a room and you have total control of their diet. You feed them exactly whatever you want to feed them and you measure their blood and what happens. And there's a factors in equation that, you know, you give somebody this much cholesterol. And then there, you know,
No, blood cholesterol goes up, I mean, and so, but, but so, I mean it's kind of this misunderstanding misuse of the literature. What is, what
is behind that misunderstanding? Why is it that so many people are misinformed or confused by that, is that because there's, you know, some conspiracy by big food to create that confusion or is it that people just like hearing you know, good news about their bad habits? Like I feel like the truth has such a difficult time rising to the surface
Yeah, no I think all those really put I mean we you know we were comforted by the fact, you know, when someone says you're what you're doing is right. The person you're you know not not feeding your kids, something that's going to give them diabetes. That's a nice message to here and all these, you know, kind of Nanny, State naysayers were trying to make you a flavorless food or something is you know, so don't worry about them. Eat your fruit.
You'll be, and you'll be healthy because their fortified, you know, I mean I that's that's a message that everybody wants to hear. They don't want to hear, oh, you know, salt still bad for me, really? I mean, I'd much rather hear the studied the dissenting scientist funded by the salt Institute. That says, oh no, we do the salt, you want kind of thing.
What's the most surprising thing that you've come across in the last couple of years, through all the research?
You've done something that really you didn't, you didn't really fully appreciate or understand or kind of change your mind
about know, they the all the microbiome stuff is just blowing my mind, right, crazy, right? So I mean the, you know, the only about 1 out of 10 cells in our bodies, actually human rights and ninety percent of us are bacteria by DNA by, you know, cell number and has tremendous power over everything from our mental.
As to our immune system to when I you know what I think when I live in medical school we learn about fiber, right? However this is just kind of like just like Mass kind of scrubbing down the colon walls and just kind of kept things moving and heading up but no five you know, like it's the indigestible part of the food, right? Doesn't really do anything for you, but no, we don't digest it. But we actually do died are
Aaron, I just said, that's what I'm to marry eats. Prebiotic. It is the it is the Prebiotic. I
know, dr. Robin shut can and DC. Oh, you gotta connect with her. She is. She's the bomb. When it comes to the microbiome, we, I just had her on the podcast, amazing. Yeah, she's got a couple books out, her latest one is called the microbiome solution. She's amazing. Yeah, and she's just, she has a really amazing talent at being able to communicate with the microbiome.
All about to a lay person so they can understand it. But it's yeah, I mean it, but it's mind-blowing. This stuff that really gets me is the Cravings part about how when you enter microgram. It actually can impact the foods that you crave, because that, that population, that ecology starts to desire, that kind of food that seated it in the first place in order to survive, it's crazy.
Yeah, I was just I just did a put a video up recently.
Out some called diversion colitis. Where if for some kind of surgical procedure you actually have to divert the fecal stream like through a, you know ileostomy or something out from the abdominal wall. Instead of going through the gut, you get something and two hundred percent of cases is something called this. Diversion colitis were all of a sudden your colon start dying. Starts bleeding. Dying. Why? And they wonder what is going on like what why all the sudden did you know, we need this fecal stream mother.
As the cell dies. And it turns out that the, that the lining of the colon, literally lives off, not of our blood supply, he lives off what the bacteria feed it right? Wow these byproducts from fiber, another prebiotics, like resistant starch. And so if we don't have the good bacteria to feed that and and so and so basically the body uses that that signal of lack of, you know, butyrate these wonderful byproducts of fiber as a signal that we have bad bacteria, have a
Dysbiotic God and starts attacking the bacteria in the gut to kind of repopulate with the good guys, but we can replicate that same scenario by just not eating fiber. We don't eat fiber. Then all of a sudden. The colon isn't getting the lining of the colon isn't getting nutrients and thinks. There must be these dysbiotic fiber hating bacteria because we're obviously what else does the our evolutionary evolutionarily does our body know but just massive quantities of fiber all day long.
And so thanks all we must have some wacky, gut wacky, gut bacteria. Let's kill them all off and you get all these kind of inflammatory and your ear.
Yeah, I mean that's the definition of an autoimmune disorder. Right? Absolutely started attacking. I mean, from a lay persons point of view. It seems to me. It feels like there is this explosion of autoimmune disorders and food allergies that's happening right now. Like suddenly there's so many people that seem to be suffering from everything, from ulcerative colitis to, you know, all these kind of digestive disorders, you know.
People are allergic to all kinds of foods. All of a sudden that I don't remember when I was a kid. Being a thing is that related to the microbiome, the health of the microbiome or what? You know, what do you think that's about or am I just
raw know? So certainly the biggest. So the best study we have was involved a million children around the world. That looked at so-called atopic diseases, like asthma allergies eczema and found indeed, this dramatic rise and it's tied most closely.
Due to the lack of a whole plant food consumption as people start dropping moving from the traditional dies to more kind of westernized diet and dropping the whole food sumption. Then you start seeing this increase in, you know, a physician diagnose asthma for example. And the question is why and microbiome would certainly fit right into that. But, you know, we've yet to kind of tie, those kind of ends of the chain together. But that's could certainly play a role
Roll. And so look, we feed them. They feed us back. It's what is a really powerful argument since of course the only source of fiber is from is from plant foods and the only source of a good source of fiber is whole plant food,
right? Have you done any looking into the differences between organic versus non-organic either in terms of nutritional content or density or the impact of you know, pesticides on the foods that were
You doing
sure. Yeah. So I have a series of videos both on the safety aspects, and nutrition aspects. And so, for traditional nutrients, like, vitamins, and minerals, there's actually no benefit from organic versus conventional across the board on average, however, for the kind of non-traditional nutrients, like the phenolic sand, some of these phytonutrients. They do have significantly more in the organic versus conventional, but we're talking like 20% more and
Nick food, maybe, 20% or more expensive. So you get the same amount per dollar conventional versus versus organic. But people aren't necessarily buying organic for the nutrients, but for the safety aspect and indeed, what? I was surprised, the Lawrence not just the pesticides. And so certainly there's a big pesticide issue but actually said that have mental. So, for example, was a cadmium, I think the cadmium from the phosphate
Fertilizers. So these artificial phosphate fertilizers, have just naturally have a lot of cadmium. This toxic heavy metal along with Mercury and lead. And so that's why conventional produce Haslem or cadmium then organic produce so, actually, go through. And so the, so, basically, the kind of the bottom line that comes out of this is that choose organic whenever you can, but we should never let fear of pesticides, for example, limit our consumption.
Of as many fruits and
vegetables, it's not an argument to not
eat fruit absent, even if you just had the most contaminated, Chilean imported grapes and baby life assay and and and I eat it would still benefit your house. So in fact, so there was a study, there's this kind of it was kind of a commute computer modeling study and food and chemical toxicology few years ago, that suggested that if just half the population, ate a single more serving of fruits, and
Was a day, it would prevent every year 20,000 cancer deaths. Not 20,000 cases of cancer between thousand cancer deaths. If just half the population, one more serving fruits and vegetables but because the modeling was unconventional fruits and vegetables that added pesticide load in the American population would cause 10 cancer, deaths. So, overall, if we did this, it would just prevent $19,990, cancer deaths. Right? So, we get this huge benefit, but also this tiny bump and risk but that
Huge benefit far outweighs the risk, but hey, why accept any risk at all? We can get all benefit no Risk by choosing organic and so certainly encourage people to do so but we should be stuffing our face with as many fruits and vegetables as possible regardless of the source,
right? So have you looked at GMO at all and glyphosate and you know, the World Health Organization classified it as a possible carcinogen probable, I can't
remember it, you know, so that and that's really the issue when it comes to GMO.
Was, is the excess pesticides, right? Because you know,
they're pesticide resistant, which allows them to pay them in this pasture,
right? You can actually put so normal it so, you know, conventional soybean Growers. They still use the same pesticide, but they use it between crops, obviously, you can't use it during the crop because it would kill your plants, so between the crops and so there's lots of pesticides in the soil. So, you grow the grow, the soybeans, you still get a little pesticide, then them versus organic, whether it's not allowed to use it at all.
But right, that's it. We can now dump it straight on the plants. And so the thought was that you'd have elevated levels and but it wasn't too. Recently, last few years with actually, we're able to measure actual market levels not in the fields but actually what makes it to Market and show that compared to both conventional and organic soil, which had very little that the levels of glyphosate we're just off the chart from Jan. In fact, so
I you know Monsanto pressured countries to actually raise the safety limit. So all of a sudden it didn't exceed the safety limit anymore but that's only because they push it
up, right? And that gets back to the politics that are inherent in all of this. You see that in what's happening with Organic certification to like what qualifies as organic isn't what it was, you know, ten years ago. It's been in some respects co-opted, it's easier to get that Organic certification. I think it still cost bunch of money or whatever, but there's more things that can
Be qualified as organic because there's money to be made there, right? They can charge more for it, it's
alright. Yes. I mean the billions in Organics are not because they're selling lots of carrots right there selling organic gonna gummy bears. And, you know, I mean, but you know, you can understand, you know, the purists who want organic to maintain, you know, this little niche. I mean we also want a lot of people to have access to it. How do we have? A lot of people have access to it? Well you know indent in this society and then it makes a lot of money off of it, right?
I mean, so so for example, you know, I have this these it's interesting series of articles about patenting turmeric. So for example, there's actually a group that it did actually. Patent turmeric the spiced or
cork Renata genetically modified? No. I know, just like the actual
turmeric because it has these all these medicinal effects and so they were sued by this group of Indian Terry say wait a second we've been using turmeric for like, you know, for you know, neither wedding medicine forever. You can't do this and they in the pan.
Polled and and and, and all was right with the world. And so it seemed like this great fight against these evil corporations, trying to get the okay. But if Pepsi Co own turmeric, oh my God, we would have to, you know, we would have it.
Everything would be in everything, it would he and could it would be in
Pepsi, it would be. And so, I mean, it's so on one hand, it's like great. Now it can remain pennies a dose and make nobody any money. So therefore We're not gonna have any research for it.
It we're not going to have any promotional budget to get it. No one's ever going to hear about it. Right? And so there's this interesting, like, wow, this is easy is right? I mean, if right, if you know, Monsanto really did on broccoli which they're trying to patent, strain the broccoli, then our kids would be eating a lot more.
Broccoli. Yeah. That's, I never thought of it from that perspective, It's Tricky, right? It's Tricky. What do you think about the food plate and the food pyramid and what's going on there? And how that sort of evolved over
time? Yeah.
I think it's I like the obviously who plays much better just people better way to kind of visualize. The food pyramid came out was gutted, pulled back by going to meetings should pressures but food plays, nice so food plays, right? Basically have fruits and vegetables 1/4 quote-unquote protein which includes legumes and so actually legumes beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils actually are the only food that actually goes over. Both is considered both a protein and a vegetable
Well, it's kind of a two for one and and then, you know, whole grain. So it's like this great, you know? I mean, is that something in the right to add is absolutely moving the right there. What
happened with that lawsuit that pcrm filed over the
over there was like Hey that that looks awful familiar. We put out that power plate years ago
or yeah, can't remember exactly what it was. I'm trying to remember, but I think it had something to do with sort of the public being being.
Misled in terms of, you know, the recommendations and well, there were certainly complex routed the some gaps in the conflict. Well, I
mean, yeah. I mean, they're the, the probably, the greatest lawsuit they've ever won was divulging, the conflicts of interest of who was on the board, right? So, these are the dietary guidelines for Americans for Americans, you know, USDA and the DHHS come together to put them together and five years since 1980. And, you know, they it's not just recommendations. This is what, you know, federal school lunch program is with
people. There is some really cool and every Republicans, this usually I'm right. This is a, it's very important what these and so, of course, huge amount of pressure from lobbyists and money, pours in, and so. But yet they were not even divulging where who was paying the sign. And so we find, so thanks to Physicians committee for responsible medicine. They came in and as she divulged, who these people were on the committee were making up these guidelines, and it's just absolutely amazing. So, they were paid for the likes of everything from there on.
You know, Coca-Cola's beverage, you know, Health Institute and the McDonald's, you know, living whatever. And then the sugar in students is sugar Association. The salt Institute, my favorite was a Joanna Dwyer, who's this? Scientists up at the tops, who used to be the Duncan Hines brand girl before she was like the Crisco brain girl. Like, you know, it should be this one and then she went on to write these you know, dietary guidelines for Americans. And so like any Bart, Mars Bar you
Candy bar companies and we wonder how screwed up these guidelines are. And so now that has changed, it was getting much better. So this current committee has less Financial ties and any other. So we're pushing things in the right direction and then and that's all good for people that, you know, want to healthy populous. Because that's where the evidence
log. Yeah, it's interesting. Do you know Andy Bellotti nutrition? Is probably he's great. You got to meet this guy but him and a few others, he's a nutritionist die.
Mission. But he'll go to these conferences and he'll tweet photos of, you know, these banners that are hanging from these big Foods. Coca-Cola, McDonald's McDonald's Institute. Yeah. Yeah. He's a big Michelle Simon person also you it's so glaring and in your face that you can't even believe it's real. It's like a scene out of Idiocracy, like kidding. And everyone's to sort of going along with it. Right. Right, right. It's
interesting. So Coca-Cola just pulled sponsorship from the American Academy of dietetics Interest.
In which and it's interesting though ate the Ada, the former Ada, you know now the academy nutrition dietetics, you know, they didn't stop the sponsored by Coca-Cola, pulled back from them. Thanks to pressure from Big New York, Times piece showing how much money they were pouring into everyone's coffers. But you know, these are all good signs. I mean the less money we have influencing the more transparency there is the more will the real science so come
out, right? So you're
optimistic, I am totally
You are everything here. Oh, absolutely. More research is getting done. That research is getting out there. It's having an impact. When you go back, you know, you know, in my kind of latest annual review, I talk about, you know, what was like, I kind of parallel the situation now with being a smoker in the 50s. So if you're a smoker in the 50s, you have the American Medical Association saying, smoking on balance is good for you. That's the AMA saying that, right? And of course they got, you know,
no and they refused to endorse the surgeon general's report when it came out in the 60s after they had gotten that ten million dollar check from the tobacco industry, I me, absolutely sit CD but okay so you go back in time but okay so you can see why the AMA was in bed with tobacco industry. Why weren't individual doctors speaking out? The majority of Physicians smoked fact the average per-capita cigarette consumption of Americans was a tooth. I was to that. So it would comes out to 1/2 pack a day for every every
In the comments or the average American smoked half pack a day. Okay? So it was in the media, right? It was in the movies. It was, you know, ads on TV dr. The government, everyone was telling you. So on one side right now, the said all you had was the signs if you knew what was going on and it none of that science broke through. So these studies done by these remarkable folks. You know Titans in the research field in the 30s 40s 50s, none of it made out in the mainstream because you're you know, your
Doctor was going to tell you to quit smoking between Puffs, and that's maybe it was. It was normal. It was what all it was. Just what you did, you know, medical meetings, one big Haze of smoke, right? You know, they're debating lung cancer in these congressional committees in the, through this fog of smoke. And so, when it's normal, right? You know, you can't wait for society to catch up to the science Because by the time it does, you could be dead by then or have cancer. Like we, I mean this
Matter of life and death. And so I see this kind of real parallel between then and now it's like okay, the science is clear, the science has been clear, but that's not what everybody does. I mean, what your doctor, your doctor, the most of us. Most of the doctors smoke back then, most of the doctors today continue to eat foods that contribute to our epidemic of dietary diseases. So you have this kind of inherent bias, this cognitive dissonance of them telling people to eat healthier than they're already eating her to exercise.
Sighs they're sitting on them about themselves and so, you know, I think, I think that's a good parallel, where you have this, you can have simultaneously this, tremendous body of unassailable evidence yet. That's not what the government. The medical community and Society is saying. In fact, by the time, the surgeon general's report came out in 1964 7,000 studies, there were 7,000 took 7,000 studies, linking smoking with lung cancer before. Certain General came out. I mean,
I think after the first six thousand they could have given a little heads-up or something. Right. I mean, but that just shows and so I don't know what thousand were at, right. But I mean how
much but I think with our demand for transparency that has to be accelerating. Absolutely right. But at the same time, you're also you're also asked at your first of all, you're asking people to embark on behavioral change, which is not fun or comfortable and not something people want to hear about, but on top of that, you're also asking.
The medical community to have this paradigm shift away from diagnose and prescribe because it's, we're just prescription nutty right now, and put on the preventive Medicine Hat. Right. And our system, the current medical sort of doctor, setup isn't really designed to function that way economically.
And that's the word, it's really economically. There's really no route for doctors get reimbursed. There's some kind of creative ways doctors are doing it now with group visits and things.
Diabetics on Medicare. But, and, you know, the ornish program, the pritikin program both been accepted by Medicare. So, there's a few ways you can get in, but in general, there's no reimbursement mechanism for a doctor telling people to keeping people healthy healthy and talk to them about things they can do to prevent illness because doctors are reimbursed by procedure like pills and procedures. That's what they give money for. That's what sends our kids through college. Not how healthy their patients were if we actually had metrics. And there are some in
In the Affordable Care Act. We have metrics that actually rewarded doctors for actually keeping people healthy then we could see the system
changed. Right. That's crazy talk, that's just crazy. I think, I think the, the approach should really be through corporate Wellness programs, because you're dealing with these big corporations, who are just getting bullied because of their insurance premiums that are Health Care, insurance premiums, and they're ready and willing to listen, if it's going to positively impact,
Their bottom line. So to implement really, you know, really in a real Way Wellness programs that aren't just, hey, we're going to run a 5k but like really tending to the food that their employees are eating and having, you know, sort of accountability programs. And really, you know, infusing, a culture that promotes Wellness, which will, of course, positively impact, you know, their insurance premiums, and their, their ultimate profitability. But also, you know, provide people with the tools to be able to
be healthy and that will trickle down from
there. That's the, that's the grand irony is that, you know, the food industry has this kind of historical, anti-corporate bias, right? It's big, it's big tobacco. It's big food coming in as this evil corporations like PepsiCo and Kentucky Fried Chicken and so like corporations are the enemy. When ironically, they may be our Salvation, they're the ones that are, you know, if they're in self-insuring their populations, they have the once to stand
Gain the most by reducing health care costs me, you prevent a few cases of diabetes, you've saved enormous amounts of money, not to mention increases in productivity and well-being. You know, the, you know, pcrm did this great series of studies attend Geico sites recently published it showed tremendous, you know, Improvement in fatigue, mental health.
Yes. I was CEO of a Fortune 500 company and came across that I'd say, sign me up when we let's do this right
now, let's change the
cafeteria.
Yeah, I think it's it, you know, but it's really the politics that swirl around these big corporations, you know, just take, take school lunch, you know, why is that such an incredible clusterfuck to unravel and repair. It's very, very difficult. Just to get healthy food options for kids because there's so much money being made and there's so much politics going into, you know, these providers that are gaining, you know, that are basically profiting from the food that's being provided these their huge
contracts, right? So right? Yeah, they're unloading
Sheep Commodities. I mean, the problem is is that healthy food doesn't have a, it doesn't if you can't mark up, healthy food. I mean the the profit margin so razor-thin for, you know, broccoli, sweet potato sack. I think you just can't charge a premium because there's no like you know, Smith brand you're not going to pay more because you have some kind of branded broccoli. Whereas is processed food, companies can take the dirt cheapest of ingredients like, you know, sugar and spin it. And
Color it in flavor it to all sorts of and there. And so like the can of Coke is one of the greatest profit margin. So like a can of Coke and basically tobacco are the two kind of most profitable in terms of how much money they make, given the raw materials that go into it. And so there's this, you know, it's not that coke sits around says, how can we make the Children of America obese, right there? Like how can we make money, right? And it just turns out the sweet potatoes don't make you as much money right man. So it's not like,
But but there's subsidies involved in
that, right? And so why is sugar so cheap because we subsidize, right? I mean, so why is corn and soy so cheap because we feed the animal and subsidized mediums through that way. And so right? So if we subsidized good food, fruits and vegetables, things are in so Europe, they're actually starting to. So, for example, a number of Scandinavian countries have done this free Fruit programs. So, every day, every kid,
Gets free Fruit. Hmm. And they found and oh, so I have this video coming out about this, these programs. Absolutely amazing. And they kind of made the calculations that to make it make it cost-effective.
It was just some absolutely wild calculation that you save so much on health care costs doing that one symbol then giving people fruit that you know it pays for itself over
and over and over. No
brainer, right? Just bright. If but you know the the watermelon promotion board, their budget, it pales in comparison, you know,
so how do we deal with this problem or at least this mentality or idea that eating
At based is, is for the elite, right? Like, how can we trickle-down this this protocol to make it more accessible for the, under privileged to look, you know? They're they're they're feeding their families off subsidized Foods. The cheapest most nutritionally poor Foods available, but they don't have, you know, sort of the the, the luxury of being able to go to Whole Foods.
Well, some of the healthiest foods and we think about the grocery bill, some of the most expensive foods are
some of the least healthy foods particularly by nutrient, right? And so if you want calories per dollar, okay? Fine. Junk food wins out, right? But, and, you know, that's how we used to measure food value. 200 years ago, when your New England bricklayer burning, 14,000 calories a day, you just needed calories and so a pound of sugar, which was five cents costs as much as a pound of beans which is cost five cents. And so USDA since sugar is healthier because has more calories per that five.
That's and you have to keep your bricklayers bricklaying, but they can be excused because vitamins hadn't been like discovered yet. I mean, we had no idea. There was just this kind of energy value food, but now that's changed. Now we know, oh, there's actually nutrients in food that do things for you. And so on a dollar per nutrient basis, then good foods went out across the board. And so, you know, some of the others do is like, you know, beings, you know, beans and rice, that kind of thing, the amount of nutrition you get
For per dollar is huge purple cabbage, right? You can probably 50 cents a pound, you can get a cabbage last practically forever. You slice off shreds put in any meal that you're eating, right? Tremendous, one of the most antioxidant packed food per dollar anywhere in the world. You can bite so cheap right. Apple's achieve. I mean these are, you know I mean you know compare a pound of breakfast cereal to a pound of apples at any store, right? And you'll be amazed in terms of how much
Food. You actually get you know and you can buy, you know, most of these Foods anywhere,
right? So how do we, how do we get that message out better than we have been? Yeah, I guess it becomes about education.
So I've done a bunch of videos about it, all sorts of cool graphs that, you know, come from the USDA. They actually go through and sharp prices of all the Commodities and and and really kind of neat colorful pretty graphs that show. Exactly. You know, how much more nutrition you can get per dollar and you know, whether you're so anyway.
Got it. So yeah the answer basically nutritionfacts.org is the
yeah, it is. What, what is your most popular video?
You know, I periodically, you know, like every year and so it's coming up to be that time. My kind of New Year's what are the top 10 videos of the year, right? And actually go back, go to Google analytics and CEO. What was the? And I'm often surprised, you know, a lot of them is because it's organic search results. It's like common questions.
So what are the? So there's like so is coconut oil healthy or something like that? I mean that will. I mean that'll be because people just Google it and then it comes up and so the so people go to the Discover the site. I wrote a thing, I wrote I
don't I don't write blog posts that often on my site but I did write a blog post after you posted your coconut oil video and I embedded it in my blog post. It was called like you know, health food or pennant, you know, Health Panacea or you know what, I can't remember what I titled it and when
I look at my Google analytics. It's I think it's the by Far and Away like the most red thing that I've ever put
on my website. People are
obsessed with coconut oil.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's
funny. So that so basically. Yeah, because it's not, it's really people organically searching on Google. They're not necessarily already on nutrition facts like, you
know, going through, right? And so the most impactful the most important videos, right? I mean, if it doesn't have a title that works well in the
Changing your no one may ever see it right? You know, and and I learned that only, you know, relatively recently and so like one of the most powerful videos is this whole igf-1 story and cancer and the name of that video is ex Vivo cancer bioassay or something like that. It's just really cool way. You can, you know, take you. You can drip blood from people on different diets on the cancer cells and see what it does. And how good your blood is at suppressing and killing cancer compared to someone else's blood or your blood two weeks.
Later after eating a plant-based diet. I mean, all these really cool, so it's just a fascinating. But with that kind of title, let me nobody will ever see
it. You gotta in bed, like keywords in there, like Kim Kardashian on that influences. Your view I
right now, it's at your. So yeah. So I've learned to make things much more kind of cut, you know? Like you'll never believe
what or what happened? Next was amazing,
right? Treating high, blood pressure with diet or something.
My title is actually kind of very Bland and boring and like I wanted to be all twisty and, and quirky and punny, but
know, you need to really turn to just study the headlines on BuzzFeed.
Right works,
so funny. All right. Well, let's talk a little bit about the book. I mean, what, what are, what is your aspiration for this
book? Yeah, well, I mean this, I mean, I think is going to do just a tremendous amount of good in the world just kind of as it is. I mean originally it was really just a vehicle.
Uncle to kind of send traffic to the site because I feel less like my primary body of work, that's where the science is, that's where they can see it. So, it's just a way to kind of inform people about and some people that way but then it turned into kind of a, this really project on its own kind of self, you know, contain and offering its own kind of value. In fact, a lot of stuff that isn't on the site, right? Because it's more like, well, this is my opinion based on my kind of professional opinion even though I can't really back it up. This is based on a, you know, this is my
Tuition based on what I with the science we do know, which I would never want to put on the site. But, you know, it's like dosing. Right? How much dose? So we have 20 studies some use this, massive do some use this tiny dose. Okay, well, what do you eat ever? If you think turmeric is good for you, how much do you actually eat every day? So I came up with 1/4 teaspoon a day. That's my recommendation, everyone should eat a quarter teaspoon of turmeric, add a. Okay. Where do you get that? There's no study that actually compare it a quarter to 1/8 to 1/16 to ride and so, but there's, you know,
You go through their studies that have side effects, it to high dose have studies that show, no effect due to low dose. And then you look at populations how much Tim work? They've been doing for a long time with a good safety records. You put all this stuff together and say, okay, that's kind of my best, guess it's not we never go on the site on the website because that's like if I can't have a paper and a quote showing you quarter teaspoon cording to The Institute of medicine making it's not gonna it's not making in the video, but people want to know, I mean, people have a legitimate, you know, interest
And so I can be like, all right. Well, this is my best guess that, you know, and, and so that's what the book could be for me, is to be like, what do I eat, how do I translate this body of information into actual like, you know, day-to-day, you know, what do we eat for breakfast? Kind of stuff. And so it'll help. So I think a lot of that kind of practical aspect that I think people really, really enjoy. And then I'll just get kind of Greater exposure for the movement and for the work, we've all been, you know, kind of
hard at doing. I think it's good timing and I hope it'll just you know, knock it all apart.
Well I think that it's a really important book. You know I feel like it has the potential to really reach a wide audience because in many ways, it really is the definitive manual on what's healthy, how you can prevent disease. And it's so detailed, it's really bulletproof. I mean, your research is impeccable. I mean this is like this is a serious
Work. Yeah, you know what I mean? It really really is and you should be really proud and I just think like it's something that I could give somebody and say this will answer all your questions and you don't have to read it from cover to cover, but you can pick a section, you can look into it you know, take that as it will and go off and do your own research or whatever you need to do. But I really feel like, you know, you mean it's clear that you put everything you have into it, you really did, you know what I mean? And I'm sure that's why it took so long.
Give it to this point. I mean, I don't know how many hours you must have put into this book, but you know, it's an extraordinary work, man. And I'm excited for thank you. What was it? Like, working with Jeanne Stone?
Yeah, well it was, you know, he's a writer, not a scientist and I think that was, that was kind of some of the initial friction is trying to figure out our various roles. So I brought in on him on board thinking they would save this huge amount of time. Like here here's my scripts Mall, the kind of, you know what, you know and that's what you do your writer, you're all these
Bestsellers behind you, and he take it and then I come back and be like, wait a second, you can't say that. That's not true. He said, but it sounds so good. Yeah, I know, it sounds great, know. It really sounds great and it's much clearer and much more, but but it's not like that doesn't represent what actually happens in reality, right. And I mean, it's not his, I mean, science isn't his background. You mean, can't can't expect it to be. And so it was just finding a way to, you know,
Have his strength, be his strengths, and my strength. So actually, you felt I. So I actually had to be much more involved than I originally thought. I was going to be, but that turns out great. I mean so really turned out that I'm glad that I got much because I started to love the project more and more and really start a kind of pouring my soul into it particularly towards the end. And so he's able to really kind of work the narrative because you know all my videos are very disjointed and so he's able to kind of weave them together and sew it
Doubt in the end to be kind of a good marriage. But but, you know, I take so much for granted that like, well, everybody knows that they, you know, the central dogma of biology with rna/dna, you know, and that. But it's so
neat that you need that person who doesn't know that who says I don't get it. You know? You need to like walk swim Lane. Yeah, walk you through it and let's create something that is going to be
accessible for. So I'm so I'm really hoping that his contribution will
open it up to wider because even my website is there pretty high level like it really, it requires some kind of substantial background, kind of know
what I appreciate is that you don't Pander to the audience, you're saying no, I trust that you're smart enough. Like rise to my level, watch this, I believe that you can understand what I'm trying to convey to you and you know because it's mature in that
regard even if they can't get it all. Like I always I try to have everything like something for every level within the same video. It's
If you really, really high level, like if you're the researcher, who's literally whose paper, I'm literally covering in that video. I want you to be like, oh, yeah, I see how you made. Those interesting connections with these researchers. I didn't even know about it. Like, that high all the way down to. I didn't know all those long words. Use had no idea what he's talking about, but I kind of get the gist. That the something that you animal protein and acid, in the kidney bad kidney, function is not good for my kids like that.
So, you know, right? Like that's all I need to kind
of like, am I really good Bugs? Bunny
cartoon, that's why they were so awesome, right? Right.
Be an adult or a toddler, and you can both enjoy
the subtleties of totally lost. Wasted on those kids, but right
where the Shakespearean reference,
right, right.
All right. So, so, you know what is if somebody's listening to this? They're flirting with the idea of a plant-based diet.
It, you know, they're interested in what you have to say, you know, what are, what are some kind of just fundamental takeaways that you could impart to kind of kick start somebody into embracing this way of living?
Well, you know, so it's I think it depends on someone's coming in from kind of disease, reversal standpoint, or someone who's, You Know, Field looks healthy and just wants to kind of maintain that
healthy. Well, let's bifurcate it.
So
So for somebody that lll, write somebody with chronic disease, diabetes hypertension. These are the kind of people I want to go all-in, right? Because I want to see, you know, when you know say well, you know what about moderation to well? Like, how moderate do you want your heart disease right
now. What is moderation? Anyway, it's a sliding scale and I most subjective thing
ever moderate. You can have, you know, you can end up with as a diabetic, moderate blindness and moderate kidney failure.
Amputations maybe just a couple Toes or something you know that's that's you know moderation in all things is not necessarily a good thing. And so for those people they have to of course work with their doctor because they have to drop their blood pressure medications, drop their diabetes medications very rapidly within two weeks and maybe off all you know insulin and diabetes medications otherwise their pressures and sugars to drop way too low on this kind of healthy die because you're actually treating the cause for those people I really want to see him really kind of go.
Wall in because then they can really see these dramatic effects within our own bodies. And that would be the motivation for them to continue that lifestyle for the rest of their lives. And I think for younger younger healthier crowd, this kind of, kind of prevent the ravages, then, they can be a little more experimental. They go to whatever speed they want because they may not necessarily their bodies necessarily at the kind of breaking point where they necessarily, you know, feel the difference with your actually, you know, eating some dark green, leafy, vegetables or not, but for someone with heart failure, I mean,
You know whether or not you had spinach and got that extra nitrate load to actually facilitate, you know, blood flow and oxygen, you know, kind of efficiency. I mean, you can actually feel the difference from these foods of the, you know, young person needs some arugula and cut a few seconds off their 5K time. But, you know, they're not necessarily going to feel any different. And for them, you know, she's taken at whatever speed and one resource, I really like is p. Serums 21-day Kickstart program starts every month hundred thousand people gone through it.
Multiple languages. It's totally free a nice Community people to go through it together and share tips and cooking and recipes. And it's been a really great program. Certainly for any practitioners out there. People have plant based practices, who are trying to work within the model. It's easy to give somebody a website, get somebody started no matter how short, your office visits are and get people on the right
track, right? I'll put a link up in the show notes to write about 21-day Kickstart program. Yeah, because it is great. Yeah, and if there's if there's one
Rabbit or one sort of dietary, you know, sort of preference that you would say. Is the number one thing that you gotta let go of,
oh, go well, so add would be dark green leafies. I'm we just need the needy greens, all day, every day. I mean, it's just nothing better than grains. Okay. So Greens on everything, under everything better, greens for everything, okay, and cutting out I'm the worst food is, is trans fats. Pretty much gone at this point, but so hydrogenated vegetable
Well, like Crisco probably the worst thing but you can't even I don't think you can find trans fat Crisco anymore and then processed meat the highest, right? So all those so ham bacon hot dogs chicken McNuggets luncheon. He's Deli slices that kind of thing. I mean there's just no room for those and
and and here's the thing with your book it's 600 pages long. You have you know voluminous chapters on all of these you know 15 leading causes of death and how to avoid them you've got
Hundred fifty pages of footnotes. The Final Chapter. I think it's the final chapter is supplements, and I think it's three
pages,
which I found. I just I laughed when I saw that. I go. That's
perfect. Well, well when you have also
Michael Greger.
Yeah. Mountains of nutrition. Sheesh, what do you
need, right? So, because that's the thing that always have. What are the supplement? You know that the solution resides in these supplements, right?
And and by kind of, you know, just putting three pages in you could say that you've checked the box and addressed it, but you're also saying listen, that's not where your focus needs to be, right? So vitamin B12 and algae-based DHA, right? Correct. And perhaps vitamin D for certain people and was there another one? Or that's pretty much
it iodine for pregnant women. Uh-huh.
Right, simple. Nothing else.
Yeah. And you know and those are all consequences of just how we live. We're no longer running around naked.
Equatorial Africa, all day getting baked in the sun. We're not, you know, hopefully we're getting less feces in a drinking water, you know, which is, you know, not getting a lot of B12 anymore, not getting a lot of Cholera either. It's as good as he's, I'll take that deal any day, right? And so it's just, you know, this this way then terms iodine, you don't know what, you know, there's identity the soils, don't know. Your vegetables are coming from and had such serious consequences during pregnancy. Other than that, we're good, we're good.
Final question.
You're on Colbert Report,
huh? Yes. Oh my God, as a present in and I was like, how did I miss that? Ha ha Rey. Is that on the internet? I gotta know. It totally is. And it's right. What was that? What was that? What was the not groundhog? What what that? What was I talking about?
I don't know. I do you see it? Oh, I just saw that. No, I just came across something that said that you had better. Tell. Ya know they're apart and that was like
so funny. What? No, no. I was on as a, they're like little porcupine creatures. What are those little
spiny?
Adil. Oh
no. It wasn't a bird that I'm not a penny. All right. No, no sea. Urchin funny, here I am and I was like the expert know. I was like the expert in this? No. So they wanted somebody on zoonotic diseases, animal to human diseases. No, I wrote the book on bird floating all these things. And so they're doing this segment was a plague. Yeah, something like that. I don't know whether the eating these creatures or something, but they're like, we need an expert on this so they brought me up and it was hilarious.
A asst. And yeah, it's really fun p. And of course they took like hours of footage and, you know, comes down to like three minutes or whatever, right? But, but, yeah, and there's actually some hours of embarrassing footage and stuff. They wanted me to all sorts of crazy stuff like like drinking out of beakers and steaming test tubes and stuff. I'm like
I can see you being game for
that. So I was, I was totally doing all this stuff, but then afterwards, I'm like, oh my God, There Goes My Career. I kept thinking how they could maybe look, so Grazie and of course, this sign, the release son, David everyone, but it turns out it came over the really gonna fight. Yeah. And played me very kind of serious. And so, I talked about how you shouldn't eat this weird little mammalian
pet,
Or something like that because otherwise you would
I don't know.
Now I gotta find that.
Yeah, no, no. It's on there somewhere. Yeah, that's funny. You finally put a link on it, that's hilarious. I will for
sure. Huh. All right man. I think we did it.
Sweet. Thanks. Something else you want to say, oh, this is great. I'm so psyched. Feel good, read the book and you gotta check out my work and
school. The book is called, how not to die. Not how to not die.
Although with
All these Technologies these days, you extend your life long enough and we figure out how to extend life further. We just have to extend human life, one year every year,
right? Well, that'll be the next book and so right, how did not die
ever? How did not die ever? That's right. I really had a couple decades. Maybe we'll reach a point where we can upload ourselves
or something right. A iban to the Mainframe so the website is nutritionfacts.org.
It's really just I talk about it on the podcast all the time. It really is your One-Stop shop to learn everything. You ever wanted to know about nutrition. How many videos do you have up now over a thousand thousand right? And you have this index, I mean, it's pot. You can search any nutrient, any disease, basically, anything I can almost guarantee that that you've got a video up on that. It really is extraordinary work that you're doing and above and beyond all of that. What's really amazing? And interesting is that correct me if I'm wrong, but all the proceeds from
On the new book are being given to the 501c3.
Absolutely. Yeah. So I don't get anything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And yeah no, I wouldn't sign a contract unless it all went there. Yeah. I know it's great. It's just kind of like the like Wikipedia model of, you know, like it just goes because one of the thousand people kicks in the few bucks and there's just so many millions of people on the site that it just pays for itself and we have all this big staff and the whole thing goes just because you know everything's free no ads anything but you know people just
By the content and able to keep the whole thing going. So it's just like labor of love that I'm doing anyway, but the fact that I can do it completely without taking a penne and let's just, I like keeping that kind of, you know, that the D commercialism taking commercialism out of nutritional science, which is, you know, critical base your
beautiful man. Oh, thanks for everything you do man. I really appreciate it but comes out December 8th, you know, it and you're going to be everywhere at the same time, little to everywhere.
Very cool man. I'm really excited for you. I'm proud of you and I'm really I'm so impressed by the work that you do and buy this book. And I think it's it's it's going to really help a lot of people. So thanks
I'll keep up the work as long as I can right on man. Peace these
plants. Mmm, alright so that was awesome. Make sure to check out dr. Gregers noob.
Book how not to die. Not to be confused with how to not die. I wonder if there is a book called how to not die. A bitch of there is I can almost guarantee you that there is. Anyway the book that you want is called how not to die and you're going to pick it up on Amazon by using the Amazon Banner at a rich world.com. Of course, thank you very much. We all win. Don't forget to check out this week's comprehensive show notes Everett role.com. Lots of stuff to delve into their to take your edification and your infotainment beyond the
It's and while you're at it, make a point to subscribe to my newsletter. No spam, just good stuff. If you want access to the entire RRP catalog beyond the most recent 50 episodes on iTunes. Well, I've got an app for that, and it's free to search Rich role in the App Store, it will pop up or you can click the banner on my website. Want to thank today's sponsor stride Health. The first deadline to sign up for health insurance is quickly. Approaching December 15th, if you want coverage starting January 1.
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Copies of our cookbook. The plant power way. Also my Memoir Finding Ultra, we've got Julie's, guided meditation program. We got nutrition products. We got all kinds of cool t-shirts and plant Powertech T's. We got sticker packs. Temporary tattoos, we have beautiful, limited-edition art prints, which make for a great gift, both framed and unframed. Anyway, all kinds of awesome to take your health and your life, to the next level. Keep sending in your questions for Future q a podcast to info at Rich Roll.com. We're going to be doing another episode of that
Midweek this week to celebrate, three years of doing this podcast and episode 200. If you can believe that, I cannot believe it. It's amazing. And I want to thank you guys. If you want more than that, I've already given you so much stuff, but you want more. Okay. I got two courses online courses at Mind Body. Green.com, the art of living with purpose, which is all about goal setting, and The Ultimate Guide to plant-based nutrition which is all about getting more plant powered as we're heading into the holiday season and
And to think about your New Year's resolutions. Well, both of these courses kind of fit the bill in terms of cleaning up your diet and also setting goals doing the interior work to make sure that you're moving forward on a proper life, trajectory for your self really proud of the courses, both multiple hours of streaming video content, very affordably priced. And you can learn more at Mind Body. Green.com just click on video courses there and I'll tell you all about it. Thank you so much for supporting the
a show for telling your friends, you guys for sharing it on social media. All of that means so much to me. I can't believe that. I have all you guys as my audience, you've been amazing and I greatly greatly. Appreciate all of you. I'll see you guys back here in a couple days with our ask me, anything episode and until then try to enjoy yourselves, try to be good to yourselves and be good to other people. Peace plants.
